Mr.Jupiter Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Thanks for that! I was waiting for the OP to come back, but hopefully enough has been discussed to be of use for the initial inquiry. Interesting, I would have been hesitant about calling but I guess you're right, why not take it to them? Little more risk than any other contact now that you mention it (always bearing in mind that these are dedicated "marketers" or worse). 28516[/snapback] I know the owners of MailcompanyX personally. We had a falling out last year because I now believe (read: KNOW) two of them to be dishonest individuals. I know for a fact that they have mailed to stolen lists, but how does one actually PROVE this in a legal setting? The authorities are very unconcerned with spam crimes, especially now that the CAN spam act has provided so much protection for spammers. All that the owner has to do is have the client sign a disclaimer and MailcompanyX is pretty much invulnerable to any recourse, because of all the obfuscation and crossover from mailing list to mailing list. That being said, I will tell you right now that if you are truly interested in learning about this company, you will want to research ION ENTERTAINMENT very, very carefully. Keep in mind that these gentlemen are very good at what they do. I gave my word to the owner of MailcomanyX that I would not directly divulge his identity publicly (again, as I did so on another board but have since removed the post). He was furious with me for even bringing up his company in the anti-spam community. When I suggested to him that he should have no worries if his business is legitimate, he simply told me that he cannot help it if his clients are unsavory, that he is plagued by anti-spammer zealots and it isn't his fault (its his clients, you understand), and that basically he takes no responsibility whatsoever for his client's actions. He just can't help it. This allows him to do as he wishes and then just blame his clients and hide behind the horrific language of the CAN spam act. I say again -- two of the gentlemen associated with this company have engaged in fraud on a huge scale. Whether or not MailcompanyX is currently breaking the law is a matter of debate (I doubt that they are), and I cannot make the claim that they are doing so because I cannot directly PROVE it...but I can make the claim that another company that they were involved with, i.e. ION ENTERTAINMENT, was involved in massive fraud. If I am lying, let them come forth and sue me for libel. The owner of MailcompanyX has asked that I not interfere with is business, and has expressed a great deal of anger toward me because I once posted his name. So I gave my word I would not do that again. I wonder though...is posting the truth about certain business practices interfering with business? Or is it simply notifying the public of something that they deserve to know? I tend toward the latter. The gentlemen read this and other spam boards regularly. It is my suspicion that they have since abandoned some of their more blatant crimes because they know that I am closely monitoring their activity, but all the same, it is so easy to commit spam crime that it would not surprise me if it is regular practice there. I'm not even sure if those gentlemen can tell the difference between right and wrong, so blurred is their vision and so calloused their collective conscious. As for ethics -- well, that is subjective. I cannot judge another man's conscious, but I can speak toward actions and my experience with them has been unpleasant to say the least. Anyway, if anyone wants to discuss any provable particulars with regard to this company or their subsidiaries, feel free to email me and we can talk, as long as you understand that I am not going to divulge their private information, nor will I engage in any attempts to undermine their right to conduct legal business. That being said, I am more than willing to help out if you can prove to me that they are currently doing something illegal. I am fairly ignorant when it comes to computers and bulk emailing tricks, but as far as list sources go I know when, where and how they got started years ago. Believe me when I tell you that they DON'T want THAT information out! And to the owner -- if you are reading this, remember what I said when we last spoke -- NO STONE UNTURNED. Justice is a bitch, and she's coming, believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Betsy Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 <snip> The owner of MailcompanyX has asked that I not interfere with is business, and has expressed a great deal of anger toward me because I once posted his name. So I gave my word I would not do that again. I wonder though...is posting the truth about certain business practices interfering with business? Or is it simply notifying the public of something that they deserve to know? I tend toward the latter. <snip> 29167[/snapback] IMHO, accusing an individual or company of fraud is probably not a good idea unless you can prove it in a court of law. However, a company (or individual) can do nothing about those who 'rate' services or products according to their experience. Look at ebay ratings, Consumer Reports magazine, etc. To say, "I paid such & such company $$ for this product, advertised in this way, and received that product instead. When I complained, Mr. X of that company, said that I misunderstood (or whatever) and that was what I paid for. I will no longer do business with this company." is very different from accusations of fraud or unethical conduct. But it will interfere with his business. That's why most companies will do a lot to appease an unhappy customer. Miss Betsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farelf Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 That being said, I will tell you right now that if you are truly interested in learning about this company, you will want to research ION ENTERTAINMENT very, very carefully. Keep in mind that these gentlemen are very good at what they do. 29167[/snapback] Thanks for the heads up Mr Jupiter. I never doubted this lot might make a dingo gag (or coyote throw up, if you will) and you confirm it. Alas, I must say now I have capitulated - I have given up trying to handle the volumes of spam hitting my address and have instituted blocks. This particular bunch seem to be easily taken out by a rule looking for their IP block in the "Received" line and discarding all hits so they are history. I hate using blocks, it is avoiding the problem, not addressing it but I tried for as long as I could stand it. While I was doing MailcompanyX (all of EZNet actually), I took out Comcast, Roadrunner, Verizon, Auna and several more of the usual suspects too. They were starting to take over my life and now they're gone. I am left with the bit players whom I shall continue to receive and report (mole). Inside the resulting change of perspective, it is nice to see the myrmidons of spamdom leading the reapproachment of Sino-Japanese relations isn't it? Japanese IPs, emailing links to sites with Chinese web hosts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Jupiter Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 Yes, I realize that one cannot simply openly accuse a company of fraud unless it is provable. THE PRIMARY OWNER OF ION ENTERTAINMENT HAS ENGAGED IN FRAUD ON A HUGE SCALE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Betsy Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 I was just suggesting that if you want to interfere with someone's business, then you can publish a 'review' of products or services. If it is a consistent pattern, then people will be wary. If it is not, then it doesn't hurt the business. However, in spite of the fact that there are pages of unsatisfied customers for some businesses at the BBB, people still sign up for cruises because it is such a 'good' deal. If the fraud is provable, then you should report it to the proper authorities and let them take care of it. Miss Betsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Jupiter Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 Oh, don't worry. The Feds are already on it, believe me. Any information about Ion Entertainment or Harris Fellman can be forwarded to F.B.I. agent Jeff Cannon in SLC, Utah, should one feel reservations about giving it to me or posting it publicly. You almost sound miffed that I would report this here, Miss Betsy. The fact is, I want the news spread everywhere about this company and these individuals. I have gotten a huge amount of help from boards just like this. ION's type of criminal activity goes well beyond spam. However, the language of law spells out some particularly harsh penalties when one adds up offenses in terms of email recipients. This is what gives the seemingly relatively minor offense of illegal spam such teeth. You will note that a woman recently recieved over 15 years for spam related offenses. It is the only real legal foothold that I have, (in terms of irrefutable proof) and as I mentioned twice, I have the proof that they knowingly commited fraud regularly over a period of years. Ion Entertainment is a well known company and there are many people who have received their illegal spam -- many of whom have contacted me as a result of posts such as this. I catalog everything and forward it, as you suggested, straight to the authorities. But it takes quite a bit to get them truly interested, you must understand. So I keep on, see? Call it a personal goal. I will not mention or comment about this further as I feel I have made my point. That being said, anyone with any information feel free to contact me and I will direct it to the place it belongs. Talk about LARTing -- you all ain't seen nuthin' yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berryproud Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 YOU GO JUPITER....if every spam reciever were as active as you in stopping...instead of just masking the problem...we would have much less of it. Good luck!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dra007 Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 We all want you to succeed Jupiter... I as many other people here are fairly convinced that all spammers are a criminal bunch and should be prosecuted. What you say confirms what I and others have suspected all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Betsy Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 I am not 'miffed' that you are posting information about an organization (especially one that spams) that is a 'warning' against that company. However, I am pointing out that emotion-filled statements, unnecessary commentary about previous conversations with the 'perp' and accusations without details is not the best way to get the attention of prudent consumers. A simple non-judgmental 'review' of one's experience with an address where others may forward complaints (with a possible anecdotal addition or two just to make it interesting) would get the attention of more people. Many people have a healthy suspicion of what sounds like a squabble and it is not unheard of that there are falling outs among theives (spammers). The whole problem of spam would not exist if people were not gullible. However, they are. If you don't want to sound as though you are one of those who are out to catch the gullible for your own ends, you might consider my comments. Miss Betsy PS I hope that you are successful, if there was fraud and if it is prosecutable. I also hope that people will be wary if they have anything to do with this company. There is nothing like persistence in dealing with spammers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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