I just have one question

[zornitzap]

Dearest administrators/creators of this wonderful site!

I just have only one question for you!

For almost 4-5 months every single day I am reporting you spam or abuse cases helping thus YOUR paid services to improve.

But this wasn't enough...

Although i choose not to pay for your service i was always "suggested" to support you. But i choose to support you otherwise, by supplying you with information, after all if we the "mules" do not exist your paid services would fail.

And one day all of a sudden somebody decided that this isn't enough and they have to make me "see" the "after_12_seconds_refreshing_window"

but I do not want to see it, I just had enough! Not only that I was participating willingly for your cause but never saw a clear result out of it! I was participating for the IDEA, but probably you'll never understand this!

And here comes the question: do you think that I will be the only one that is not satisfied with this "status quo". A rhetoric one. Not expecting an answer.

Probably one paying user is more worthy than one mule. So MULES be aware of that.

Wish you success!

Best regards,

Zornitza I. Popgeorgieva

Sofia, Bulgaria

[sundaypuncher82]

I am in agreement with you. I have been faithfully reporting to spamcop for over a year now. And my refresh window says 57 seconds!!!!! I can't believe spamcop thinks this will cause me to pay. Given the problems spamcop has had in the last month...I have had to re-register THREE times due to spamcop errors. And now this?? Spamcop why don't you just delete all free accounts and be done with it?? By letting people try this service for free, they are encountering problems and many of them I might add. This will NOT cause people to pay...but just the opposite. It takes long enough to report spam...we really don't need this extra "delay" window. I have reported my last spam at spamcop...which is a shame...because for every one of me that comes to the forum and says something...there are probably twenty of me who will just stop and that is that.

Better do some serious re-thinking about this delay.....I was about to get a paid account....until all the problems.....and now this delay has just sealed the deal for me....

Goodbye, Farewell and Amen!

[StevenUnderwood]

I don't know if either of you will return to read what I have to say but here goes.

1.The delay has been there for at least 2 years when I signed up and I believe has always been there. I have a free account for work and a paid email account for home.

2.The length of the delay is an estimate about how long it will take for your message to be processed. There is a (7 second I believe) delay built into the free account, but beyond that, everyone is seeing the same delays, paid or not. That 57 second delay mentioned was probably 50 second if you are a paying customer.

3.When spamcop has problems as you mentioned happened recently, there often is a backlog of reports to process, which increases the delay seen by everyone. If it is too long, stop reporting for a while and try again later.

4.The paid accounts also report spam, so the service would not fail without the free accounts. I report at least 300 every day between my 2 accounts.

5.As far as taking too long to report spam through spamcop, have you ever tried to do it all manually? That is how I started until I found spamcop. Spamcop saves me about 15-20 minutes PER message in reporting.

Good luck and I am sorry you were dissatisfied.

[zornitzap]

Dear Mr. Underwood,

Thank you for your reply. I am not the kind of person that throws a bomb and runs… Of course I have to come back and see what’s the damage. Kidding… Now seriously!

For the period that I am/was using the free service this “redirection” did not exist. It appeared few days ago. I am not sure that we are discussing the same thing. I am not talking about the delays between loading the submitting page or any other page. I am talking about a page that appears before loading my submitted information and which is reminding my for N seconds that I’d better get a paid account. And this definitely slows my reporting. It’s true I don’t see this redirecting page every time but sure I have to wait the N seconds to pass before submit the necessary info.

Sure the service won’t fail with my leaving but it’s also true that if the free service gets annoying then the submission of information would be poor and then the paid accounts won’t get the best resulting service! Boy I wish I never have your number of received spam letters! And as a matter of fact before using spam cop free service I used to report my received spam/abuse cases by my own. It’s not a big deal but the thing that is precious here is that spam Cop gives you anonymity!

That’s the thing! And no one ever will understand that exactly you with youremail[at]yourdomain.com gave them away!

That’s the case and that’s my profound believe!

Thank you for your attention

Best regards,

Zornitza I. Popgeorgieva

Sofia, Bulgaria

[turetzsr]

<snip>

For the period that I am/was using the free service this “redirection” did not exist. It appeared few days ago. I am not sure that we are discussing the same thing. I am not talking about the delays between loading the submitting page or any other page. I am talking about a page that appears before loading my submitted information and which is reminding my for N seconds that I’d better get a paid account. And this definitely slows my reporting. It’s true I don’t see this redirecting page every time but sure I have to wait the N seconds to pass before submit the necessary info.

<snip>

...Really? That's very odd. My experience is that the "n seconds" page always appeared (I've been using SpamCop.net since July 2003) but that recently the number of seconds has become a better estimate (it always used to say 7 no matter how long it actually would take).

[Wazoo]

Not sure if it will help at all, but perhaps a look at some charts might help. One specific graphic at http://alpha.cesmail.net/graphics/spamweek.gif might show something that may help understanding some items. The "break" at the start was due to relocation of several of the primary SpamCop server to a new location, and that also ended up with different network connections coming into play. I'm not in a position to state that things are totally worked out at present, but I have no doubt that there are still some "adjustments" still being made.

[StevenUnderwood]

I am not sure that we are discussing the same thing.

Then for clarity sake, please include a URL you are following that gets you to the "redirection page".

I use: http://www.spamcop.net/?code=mysecretcodehere and get no delay or warning about becoming a paid member. that page opens the webform where I can paste my spam. If I then hit the "Process spam" button, I get the standard wait page which has been ther since the beginning of time with this text:

Please wait - subscribe to remove this delay

(or click reload if this page does not refresh automatically in 7 seconds.)

Members can get copies of all reports CCed to them.

Which then takes me to the parsed message wher I can report the spam. Note, the number 7 can be anything, depending on the load on the machines at the time. No additional delay beyond what has always been there. If you use some other URLs to get to these pages,let me know so I can try them and see if certain paths have added a wait to them.

[turetzsr]

<snip>

I use: http://www.spamcop.net/?code=mysecretcodehere and get no delay or warning about becoming a paid member.

<snip>

...Yes, you do! See below (a copy of what you "QUOTE"d) that I've changed to red text.

Please wait - subscribe to remove this delay

(or click reload if this page does not refresh automatically in 7 seconds.)

Members can get copies of all reports CCed to them.

[StevenUnderwood]

Yes, you do! See below (a copy of what you "QUOTE"d) that I've changed to red text.

NO, I don't when I go to the page I defined by the URL. I only get the delay (and have for almost 2 years now) after pasting a spam into the page (or hitting the Report spam link for email submission) before the parse shows up.

The delay you copied from my post is NOT new. It has been there, as far as I know, since day 1 of the spamcop service.

From the FAQ, which has been there since Dec 2002 when I signed up, (http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/288.html)

A premium member account gives you access to more features on SpamCop and better access through a server with less traffic than free users. These features include:

No advertising or delay (nag) screens;

Removing that nag screen is one of the benefits to a paid account, just like free software that you pay to register.

[studog]

I've noticed three things over the last few days:

1: The delay time is "randomly" much much higher than the 3-7 seconds it used to

be. Some posters suggest that the exact delay time is related to the load on the

servers, and is an estimation of when the processing will be complete. This sounds

sensical, but I do not know if it is true. What I do know is that sometimes frequent

reloading will get the processed spam well before the original delay time is up. ie

The notice might say 91 seconds, but I get the processed spam after only 20

elapsed seconds. This encourages reloading.

2: Sometimes I'll get the original small random delay screen, and then it will

reload and I'll get the much larger random delay screen.

3: While I've always seem the short random delay (I have a free account) a few

times the spam has reported and processed *without* the delay. I figured that the

service was upgrading to not require the delay anymore, but now I'm thinking that

there's a bug in the delay system.

For the much larger delay, I think the largest I've seen so far is 163 seconds.

...Stu

[julian]

Any delay over 7 seconds is a bug. I'm looking into this problem & should have a fix online shortly. The delay for non-paid members should never be longer than that, and I appologize if it has been.

The nag screen delay does not depend on system load at all - other "inherent" delays in processing are dependant on load, but not the nag screen.

-=Julian=-

[turetzsr]

Yes, you do! See below (a copy of what you "QUOTE"d) that I've changed to red text.

NO, I don't when I go to the page I defined by the URL. I only get the delay (and have for almost 2 years now) after pasting a spam into the page (or hitting the Report spam link for email submission) before the parse shows up.

...You are correct. But you are saying "no" to something that I never said. <g>

The delay you copied from my post is NOT new.  It has been there, as far as I know, since day 1 of the spamcop service.

...You are correct. But I never said anything about it begin new. <g> Quite the contrary:

...Really? That's very odd. My experience is that the "n seconds" page always appeared (I've been using SpamCop.net since July 2003) but that recently the number of seconds has become a better estimate (it always used to say 7 no matter how long it actually would take).

[sundaypuncher82]

1.The delay has been there for at least 2 years when I signed up and I believe has always been there.  I have a free account for work and a paid email account for home.

That is not true. I have been reporting for a year now and until the last week...I NEVER GOT THE MESSAGE that says....."to stop this delay purchase a paid account now." And what happens when you click refresh like suggested??? You get another message about paying for an account. With all due respect Mr. Underwood...these things WERE NOT HAPPENING until just recently. Maybe you were reporting in a different manor.....but trust me...I reported THOUSANDS of spams without ONE SINGLE message like the above mentioned. This message is new. But don't get me wrong....as the saying goes...WHAT DO YA WANT FOR NOTHING??? I am going to continue reporting spam...I have just bought an account with another service. Too many problems with spamcop, like spam reports dissapearing and having to re-register because of some poultergueist or whatever. I am still behind you though...and wish you the best of luck. Also the help in this forum is below par at best. The first reply claims that what we are describing (ie the delay message) isn't new and always has been there. HMMM...I guess we are lying or imagining it...either way....its not help....just debate.

[Wazoo]

Well, opinions and such aside, for those that don't know the significance of it, the posting recently provided by "Julian" was from the guy that came up with the concept, coded the programs involved, and is still the chief cook and bottle washer of the SpamCop tool set ... that he entered these Forums at all is unusual, that he posted here, even more unique ... there's no doubt that the issue is being worked on.

[studog]

Any delay over 7 seconds is a bug. I'm looking into this problem & should have a fix online shortly. The delay for non-paid members should never be longer than that, and I appologize if it has been.

Cool, thanks.

...Stu

[Miss Betsy]

I have just bought an account with another service.

Is there another service that 'reports' spam? I have never heard of one.

Miss Betsy

[StevenUnderwood]

1.The delay has been there for at least 2 years when I signed up and I believe has always been there.  I have a free account for work and a paid email account for home.

That is not true. I have been reporting for a year now and until the last week...I NEVER GOT THE MESSAGE that says....."to stop this delay purchase a paid account now." And what happens when you click refresh like suggested??? You get another message about paying for an account. With all due respect Mr. Underwood...these things WERE NOT HAPPENING until just recently. Maybe you were reporting in a different manor.....but trust me...I reported THOUSANDS of spams without ONE SINGLE message like the above mentioned. This message is new. But don't get me wrong....as the saying goes...WHAT DO YA WANT FOR NOTHING??? I am going to continue reporting spam...I have just bought an account with another service. Too many problems with spamcop, like spam reports dissapearing and having to re-register because of some poultergueist or whatever. I am still behind you though...and wish you the best of luck. Also the help in this forum is below par at best. The first reply claims that what we are describing (ie the delay message) isn't new and always has been there. HMMM...I guess we are lying or imagining it...either way....its not help....just debate.

You can say it is not true, but that does not change the fact that free reporting has "always" had the nag screen that I pasted above. It does not use the phrase you include here, so perhaps you are seeing a different message.

Perhaps your account was setup incorrectly to begn with and they only corrected it recently, but if you had a free account, you SHOULD have been seeing the nag screen.

Perhaps the delay was so short you never noticed it before. I don't know why you never saw a nag screen. You should have.

I explained exactly how I report my spam in my second post. I have not seen anyone else describe how they get to a page without the nag screen. And as Julian mentiond (he's the person who wrote all the parsing and reporting code, in case you were not ware) the nag screen is ecpected on a non-paid account.

[StevenUnderwood]

Yes, you do! See below (a copy of what you "QUOTE"d) that I've changed to red text.

NO, I don't when I go to the page I defined by the URL. I only get the delay (and have for almost 2 years now) after pasting a spam into the page (or hitting the Report spam link for email submission) before the parse shows up.

...You are correct. But you are saying "no" to something that I never said. <g>

And you were saying YES to something I never said. I said that when I go to the page quoted, I don't get a nag screen, and I don't. When I go to the reporting screen is when I get the nag screen.

[turetzsr]

Yes, you do! See below (a copy of what you "QUOTE"d) that I've changed to red text.

NO, I don't when I go to the page I defined by the URL. I only get the delay (and have for almost 2 years now) after pasting a spam into the page (or hitting the Report spam link for email submission) before the parse shows up.

...You are correct. But you are saying "no" to something that I never said. <g>

And you were saying YES to something I never said. I said that when I go to the page quoted, I don't get a nag screen, and I don't. When I go to the reporting screen is when I get the nag screen.

...Oh! I see -- I misinterpreted what you wrote. Humble apologies (not the first time and not the last.) <g>

[zornitzap]

Dear Mr. Underwood,

Here comes the explanation! There are 2 types of reporting (or at least I am aware of only these). First is to go to let’s call it your submitting page with all the fields empty and then you have to paste some information in order the system to parse it and send the reports (silent or not) to the concerned parties. The other way is from your spammed account to forward as attachment the spam message. In that case the system parses the message automatically and sends you an automatic e-mail reply in which a link is placed. Then you have to click on the link and it takes you to a page where is your message already parsed and you just have to click on the button “Send spam report now” and then you are informed that “/dev/null'ing report for mole[at]devnull.spamcop.net” so…

The annoying window (sometimes) appears when you click on the link in your received e-mail and instead seeing your parsed message you see the above mentioned redirecting window. It takes several seconds and is suggesting you to buy yourself a paid account.

And here comes something else. It never probably occurred to someone that I may report spam/abuse cases from my yahoo account and even if I wanted to get a paid account I could never ever use it it’s impossible and useless in that case! That’s why I explained to you that I was participating for the cause and never ever will get any “benefit” from this!

Best regards,

Zornitza I. Popgeorgieva

Sofia, Bulgaria

[sundaypuncher82]

[You can say it is not true, but that does not change the fact that free reporting has "always" had the nag screen that I pasted above.  It does not use the phrase you include here, so perhaps you are seeing a different message.

Perhaps your account was setup incorrectly to begn with and they only corrected it recently, but if you had a free account, you SHOULD have been seeing the nag screen.

Perhaps the delay was so short you never noticed it before.  I don't know why you never saw a nag screen.  You should have. 

I explained exactly how I report my spam in my second post.  I have not seen anyone else describe how they get to a page without the nag screen.  And as Julian mentiond (he's the person who wrote all the parsing and reporting code, in case you were not ware) the nag screen is ecpected on a non-paid account.

Then maybe I was "lucky" for a year??? This doesn't surprise me in the least given all the problems lately. But like I said in my last post...this is nothing more than a debate.....NOT HELPFUL IN THE LEAST. My wife and I just laugh at this nonsense. Sitting here reading a post from someone telling me something has been happening for a year (the nag screen) when we both know it hasn't. Spamcop would be a great thing if you had some real tecs and not some people who just jump in and start debating when all people really want is help. How about if someone tells you the nag screen hasn't been there you believe them and then try to work from there??? A new concept I know....but good advice if you would take it.

Thanks Ms. Betsy you have been great!! I was talking about an email account not a reporting account. I still report my spam to uce[at]ftc.gov. Gets the same results without the senseless debate. Anyone else having trouble with spamcop I suggest do the same. No nag screen, no debate....just send it and forget it.

[Wazoo]

Here comes the explanation! There are 2 types of reporting (or at least I am aware of only these).

As a free account type, I only know of the paste-it-in-the-box web page form and to that I can say that the delay has always existed. E-mail submittals seem to cause so many folks so much grief, I never bothered to even try, so I can't answer to that side.

click on the button “Send spam report now” and then you are informed that “/dev/null'ing report for mole[at]devnull.spamcop.net”

You may want to note the contents of the FAQ http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/373.html .. mole-reporting was a failed experiment ...

I may report spam/abuse cases from my yahoo account and even if I wanted to get a paid account I could never ever use it it’s impossible and useless in that case! That’s why I explained to you that I was participating for the cause and never ever will get any “benefit” from this!

I'm not sure of your position on the useless and impossible use of a Yahoo account. In the U.S., Forwarding from a Yahoo acount is a paid service, though noting that Yahoo.uk offers this for free ... at any rate, the SpamCop Filtered E-Mail account runs some magic software that allows the SpamCop servers to POP your e-mail from a Yahoo account, which allows for the filtering action and reporting to be available from that SpamCop account.

[Wazoo]

I still report my spam to uce[at]ftc.gov. Gets the same results without the senseless debate

Not sure at all how you equate to get "the same results" ... uce[at]ftc.gov just feeds a database. Granted, it's open to various law enforcement and other specific agencies, but ... there is definitely no immediate action taken on anything sent to this address. So there is no misunderstanding, yes, I feed it also, but I also know what its for .. and that purpose is a far cry from the concept of a SpamCop complaint.

[zornitzap]

Thank you Wazoo for your reply!

1.Never ever had any problems with the e-mail submittals. The spam emails were perfectly parsed and all I had to do before clicking on the submit button is to be sure that the submitted by me e-mail is really a spam/abuse. Try to use this method it's perfectly STRAIGHTFORWARD solution. And it's fast!

2.Thank you for literally opening my eyes (with no sense of sarcasm) that all I ever did was to participate in a statistics! Frankly I did not read this and now I understand what bothered me all that time in the expression 'dev/null'ing report' -> viva la linux!

and

3.Here i'm not discussing the paid pop3 forward service of yahoo and thus what i get as spam in my account stays there forever. In that connection paid service from spamcop == useless (in my case!)

Best regards,

Zornitza I. Popgeorgieva

from sunny Sofia, Bulgaria

[StevenUnderwood]

This is combining replies to several messages in response to my messages.

From: zornitzap

Here comes the explanation! There are 2 types of reporting (or at least I am aware of only these).

You are correct and I use both methods.

The annoying window (sometimes) appears when you click on the link in your received e-mail and instead seeing your parsed message you see the above mentioned redirecting window. It takes several seconds and is suggesting you to buy yourself a paid account.

Thank you for the clear explanation of how you are submitting and reporting your messages.

I still have never seen (and I just tested again) the nag screen when linking from the email or when clicking the link for unsent reports.

The only time I have ever seen the nag screen, and it has been every time since December 2002, is when I paste into the submit screen. Perhaps you are seeing something I have not and there is a small bug in one of the reporting servers?

From: sundaypuncher82

Spamcop would be a great thing if you had some real tecs and not some people who just jump in and start debating when all people really want is help.

If that were the case, it is unlikely we would be having this discussion as free acc**ts would probably not exist. Or at least free accounts with support.

How about if someone tells you the nag screen hasn't been there you believe them and then try to work from there???

OK. If you would tell me how you are submitting your messages (as seen above) we could try and come to some common ground and I could possibly give you an explaination and possibly contact someone who could get the problem fixed. I explained in my second post exactly how I see the nag screen every time.

If you are submitting via the copy/paste screen and have not been getting the nag screen in the past, then you were "lucky for a year" probably because something was setup incorrectly on your account. It states in the SpamCop supplied FAQ referenced earlier that you should have been getting the nag screen.

If you are submitting via email and seeing the nag screen, there could be an inconsistency in the code with one of the reporting servers in which case you should contact the deputies<at>spamcop.net and explain the situation to them. I still have not had any instances of seeing the nag screen via email submission.

Good luck