Mailhost Config (hosts list)

[mdeavult]

Hello all,

Trying to migrate my email filtering to the "new" system. I'm not into all this stuff, so please excuse my stupidity.

I have a "real" email account elsewhere, only one, and Spamcop sucks the email off that server, runs it through the sooper dooper filter, and then I take it off the Spamcop server.

So, I just did the configuration thingy, and when it came back it showed all these hosts/domains, and there should only be one! What should I do?

Hosts/Domains: ali, uni-klu.ac.at, mx.uni-klu.ac.at, mx2.uni-klu.ac.at, uqss.uquebec.ca, amnesix.uqss.uquebec.ca, ethic.geekmail.cc, maxim.geekmail.cc, precept.geekmail.cc, ethz.ch, bernie.ethz.ch, bernie-rz.ethz.ch, inf.ethz.ch, ea.inf.ethz.ch, medoc.inf.ethz.ch, unibe.ch, klnt1.unibe.ch, mailhub02.unibe.ch, mailhub02-skge0.unibe.ch, cotse.com, mailhost.cotse.com, datakultur.com, gimli.datakultur.com, dustdevil.com, excelsiorscastle.com, exceluber.excelsiorscastle.com, mail.excelsiorscastle.com, istop.com, ott.istop.com, slootsky.ott.istop.com, ivcdns.com, dragon.jarvis.com, r8ix.com, samurai.com, home.samurai.com, siteprotect.com, cmlapp08.siteprotect.com, mx2.wwlp.com, wwlpsvr2.wwlp.com, jules.de, eris.jules.de, intranet.csupomona.edu, adler.intranet.csupomona.edu, bebe.intranet.csupomona.edu, rice.edu, mail.rice.edu, fungible7.mail.rice.edu, handler3.mail.rice.edu, owlserv2.mail.rice.edu, moe.rice.edu, mail.owlnet.rice.edu, uninea.fi, viola.uninea.fi, nowhere.alenet.it, mermaid.fantasy.lan, localhost, b-one.net, mail1.b-one.net, mx1.b-one.net, mx2.b-one.net, inna.net, cephalopod.inna.net, ip01.net, oplnk.net, mail.oplnk.net, yello.shallow.net, email.starband.net, atlas.email.starband.net, osiris.email.starband.net, dsl.wchtks.swbell.net, adsl-67-66-109-146.dsl.wchtks.swbell.net, ukservers.net, mx-24.ukservers.net, mx2.ukservers.net, server24.ukservers.net, server26.ukservers.net, server28.ukservers.net, localhost.server28.ukservers.net, 66-6-202-211.waymark.net, widexs.nl, mail.widexs.nl, fallback-3.mail.widexs.nl, xs4all.nl, mxzilla8.xs4all.nl, imageek.org, wopr.imageek.org, smaug.lothe.org, slootsky.org, kenny.slootsky.org, mail.slootsky.org, sten.org, tblc.org, post-amavis, premise.demon.co.uk

[Bruce]

I have 3 .coms registered via one dynamic DNS provider, each .com's mail is managed by this provider, one catch all address for each of them (all three are for future sites I'll be building).

I added a host for each mail address sysadm[at]first.com, sysadm[at]second.com, and sysadm[at]third .com, spamcop sent two mails to each, the first ones arrived in the correct order, the second ones in a different order about 15 minutes apart). I added them in first.com, second.com and third.com order.

The mailhost list initially showed the first.com, then swapped it for the second.com then swapped the second.com for the third.com. I would have expected all 3 to be in the list, but there is only one. Then the remaining mail came in a different order and the third.com was swapped for the second.com when I verified it.

For each of the above I used the same mailhost name but supplied a catchall address for each .com name, should I have used a different mailhost name for each? There is no mail coming from these .coms at this time and forwarding is off as a precaution. Suggestions please.

All other registrations were fine, with the exception of my primary ISP which did not report the correct IP address in 2 out of the 3 mailings from spamcop.

[Ellen]

I have 3 .coms registered via one dynamic DNS provider, each .com's mail is managed by this provider, one catch all address for each of them (all three are for future sites I'll be building).

I added a host for each mail address sysadm[at]first.com, sysadm[at]second.com, and sysadm[at]third .com, spamcop sent two mails to each, the first ones arrived in the correct order, the second ones in a different order about 15 minutes apart). I added them in first.com, second.com and third.com order.

The mailhost list initially showed the first.com, then swapped it for the second.com then swapped the second.com for the third.com. I would have expected all 3 to be in the list, but there is only one. Then the remaining mail came in a different order and the third.com was swapped for the second.com when I verified it.

For each of the above I used the same mailhost name but supplied a catchall address for each .com name, should I have used a different mailhost name for each? There is no mail coming from these .coms at this time and forwarding is off as a precaution. Suggestions please.

All other registrations were fine, with the exception of my primary ISP which did not report the correct IP address in 2 out of the 3 mailings from spamcop.

Hi Bruce -- you are going to have to send your registered SpamCop email address, information about the problems with the actual domain names and also information about the other problem with ISP name etc to deputies <at> spamcop.net ...

[dbiel]

It might help if there was a clear definition of how mailhosts are actually setup posted as a pinned item.

It looks like you are operating under the assumption that each of your domains will be listed in the mailhost list. That is not the case

The only items that are listed in the mailhosts list are:

1: the general name of the mailhost

2: the list of mail servers used by the mailhost

3: the IP addresses of the relays used by the mailhost

4: the last e-mail address you registered that used a specific mailhost

If multiple domains and/or multiple e-mail addresses use the same mailhost only the last one registered will be retained in the list

see

http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?...findpost&p=7139

[Bruce]

I have 3 .coms registered via one dynamic DNS provider, each .com's mail is managed by this provider, one catch all address for each of them (all three are for future sites I'll be building).

I added a host for each mail address sysadm[at]first.com, sysadm[at]second.com, and sysadm[at]third .com, spamcop sent two mails to each, the first ones arrived in the correct order, the second ones in a different order about 15 minutes apart). I added them in first.com, second.com and third.com order.

The mailhost list initially showed the first.com, then swapped it for the second.com then swapped the second.com for the third.com. I would have expected all 3 to be in the list, but there is only one. Then the remaining mail came in a different order and the third.com was swapped for the second.com when I verified it.

For each of the above I used the same mailhost name but supplied a catchall address for each .com name, should I have used a different mailhost name for each? There is no mail coming from these .coms at this time and forwarding is off as a precaution. Suggestions please.

All other registrations were fine, with the exception of my primary ISP which did not report the correct IP address in 2 out of the 3 mailings from spamcop.

Hi Bruce -- you are going to have to send your registered SpamCop email address, information about the problems with the actual domain names and also information about the other problem with ISP name etc to deputies <at> spamcop.net ...

Ellen,

Done! Thanks for the address.

Bruce

[dfurnell]

Hi there; my mail server hostnames end in brad.ac.uk but when I look at my Hosts/Domains there are lots in there which are not from my site.. such as dur.ac.uk ic.ac.uk york.ac.uk. I don't know why this is happening; these servers are nothing to do with my site. Maybe it's worth pointing out that the *.uk addresses differ at the .*.uk point, that is bbc.co.uk is a totally different site to itv.co.uk. Similarly for Universities york.ac.uk is no way related to brad.ac.uk. Or is it meant to be working like this?

[Ellen]

Hi there; my mail server hostnames end in brad.ac.uk but when I look at my Hosts/Domains there are lots in there which are not from my site.. such as dur.ac.uk ic.ac.uk york.ac.uk. I don't know why this is happening; these servers are nothing to do with my site. Maybe it's worth pointing out that the *.uk addresses differ at the .*.uk point, that is bbc.co.uk is a totally different site to itv.co.uk. Similarly for Universities york.ac.uk is no way related to brad.ac.uk. Or is it meant to be working like this?

Send me your registered email address again and a brief problem description and I'll have Julian take a look at it.

[dfurnell]

Hi there; my mail server hostnames end in brad.ac.uk but when I look at my Hosts/Domains there are lots in there which are not from my site.. such as dur.ac.uk ic.ac.uk york.ac.uk. I don't know why this is happening; these servers are nothing to do with my site. Maybe it's worth pointing out that the *.uk addresses differ at the .*.uk point, that is bbc.co.uk is a totally different site to itv.co.uk. Similarly for Universities york.ac.uk is no way related to brad.ac.uk. Or is it meant to be working like this?

Send me your registered email address again and a brief problem description and I'll have Julian take a look at it.

Ok Ellen done that... thanks for looking into this!

Drew

[gv2]

Although my mailhosts configuration is working correctly for the last couple of weeks there are a few things that look strange on the mailhosts configuration page:

What is it with the entries that have no hosts/domain or no relaying ip or in case of spamcop itself neither one?

One of them without relaying IP is (one of the two) entries for GMX that looks even stranger: It lists mail.ries.homeip.net, zwick3.local and imap.gmx.net. Only the third host/domain has anything to do with gmx, the second one is not a proper host name.

Gerald

[andrewswebb]

I recently took a look at my mailhost configuration and in the Hosts/Domains drop down their is an extra domain omnigroup.com which is not my domain. Does anyone know what this is and how I can remove it if its not supposed to be their?

Thanks,

Andy

[Ellen]

Folks -- I am not trying to be nasty but there is no way that I can even attemopt to answer "why is this in my mailhosts" type questions here on the newsgroups. I need you to write to the address in my sig and include a problem description/question and your registered SC email address.

[gv2]

Folks -- I am not trying to be nasty but there is no way that I can even attemopt to answer "why is this in my mailhosts" type questions here on the newsgroups. I need you to write to the address in my sig and include a problem description/question and your registered SC email address.

And there is no way to figure out that that was an answer to my post if I set up email notification and you move my post without telling my! I actually assumed you have just removed it and that really pissed my off for a while. So if you rename, move or delete posts of people: tell them! That's one of the reasons why there are these "email" and "pm" buttons! Even if the bulletin boards are yours and you can do whatever you like with it, just doing whatever you like to and ignoring any good rule that has been well established for USENET is unacceptable for me!

Gerald

[Ellen]

Folks -- I am not trying to be nasty but there is no way that I can even attemopt to answer "why is this in my mailhosts" type questions here on the newsgroups. I need you to write to the address in my sig and include a problem description/question and your registered SC email address.

And there is no way to figure out that that was an answer to my post if I set up email notification and you move my post without telling my! I actually assumed you have just removed it and that really pissed my off for a while. So if you rename, move or delete posts of people: tell them! That's one of the reasons why there are these "email" and "pm" buttons! Even if the bulletin boards are yours and you can do whatever you like with it, just doing whatever you like to and ignoring any good rule that has been well established for USENET is unacceptable for me!

Gerald

I have no idea what you posted, where you posted it or who moved your post.

[gv2]

I have no idea what you posted, where you posted it or who moved your post.

The first on from me in this topic. Originally, it was a new topic. Then it ended up in this thread.

Gerald

[Wazoo]

I have no idea what you posted, where you posted it or who moved your post

JeffG hasn't made any signs in a while, so we all know that it was I.

So if you rename, move or delete posts of people: tell them! That's one of the reasons why there are these "email" and "pm" buttons!

I normally do that, sorry if I missed one ... on the other hand, I'm also getting tired of doing that, based on the responses ranging from absolutely nothing to "who the *** are you" ...

ignoring any good rule that has been well established for USENET is unacceptable for me!

Obviously, this isn't Usenet. But if you want to use that analogy, then substitute Threads for Topics. Similar complaints, issues, especially when they're going to get the exact same response would / should normally fall into place with existing subject matter. I liken it to the daily experience in the Microsoft peer-to-peer support newsgroups that have folks starting new threads on a daily basis, some of them starting with the phrase "I've searched everywhere and don't see this" .... and I'm looking at the same question having been asked 1 to 200 times a day, every day, for the past many months .... In this medium, why allow 100's of "new" Topics to be started, when the contents already match an existing Topic? Someone looking for an answer should find it easier to get it by looking at the subject matter already discussed under one heading .. vice having to wade through 100+ one question/one answer Topics ..... And to go along with your comparison to Usenet .... the age old advice of read before posting also comes into play ...

[gv2]

ignoring any good rule that has been well established for USENET is unacceptable for me!

Obviously, this isn't Usenet.

.... In this medium, why allow 100's of "new" Topics to be started, when the contents already match an existing Topic? Someone looking for an answer should find it easier to get it by looking at the subject matter already discussed under one heading .. vice having to wade through 100+ one question/one answer Topics ..... And to go along with your comparison to Usenet .... the age old advice of read before posting also comes into play ...

Well you are writing basically just show me one thing: you use the wrong medium for the wrong purposes. These bulletin boards are discussion forums. They are not made for support purposes, at least as long as anyone can post. They are not very good for FAQs either. (I don't even like them very much for discussions but that's my personal opinion). Information is not very clearly presented and with 10 or more messages on one page it is just awful to browse for any useful information. (You obviously noted these defiencies and have only one post in our pinned messages...) If you want to make sure that the number of threads/topics does not explode than you have to moderate the forum and let only that information be posted that is relevant.

If you need something for support use an support tool. Depending on your needs use a for example trouble ticket systems. If you want to deal with FAQs and present them properly you'll find many good examples and systems out there. If you need more, build an interactive troubleshooting agent (or whatever you might call it) that guides through some major issues and FAQs but asking questions.

Anyway, a plain two level system (forum & posts) is just inadequate. A discussion forum is just not right for your purposes if you do not want discussions (or at least not in threads/topics that you would like them to be). Discussions are free and that is what this system does.

So, just use the proper tools for the right reasons and you won't need someone to clean up or move messages around...

(Well, this goes so off topic as it only can be so I am really curious where this post might end up...)

[StevenUnderwood]

Depending on your needs use a for example trouble ticket systems.

The needs are for the public to post, as that who is supporting the product. Trouble ticket systems do not work with a publicly supported product. Most of the people here are simply other users who have been around and have picked up how things work. Even Wazoo is simply a volunteer moderator.

There are a couple of deputies, who are paid to help support the product, but that is it.

[gv2]

Depending on your needs use a for example trouble ticket systems.

The needs are for the public to post, as that who is supporting the product. Trouble ticket systems do not work with a publicly supported product. Most of the people here are simply other users who have been around and have picked up how things work. Even Wazoo is simply a volunteer moderator.

There are a couple of deputies, who are paid to help support the product, but that is it.

Trouble ticket systems were only an example. Just picking on that one point and example is somewhat misleading. And, trouble ticket systems do work with publicly supported products. The general support processes are always the same even if the crowd dealing with varies... And there are many more tools like bugzilla that help support.

So, anyway, although you are right with all you write, still my point remains that the tools employed do not meets the needs. A bulletin board like this one does not suit for all purposes. And it definitively does not suit support purposes as used here when someone moves around posted articles to clean up the threads. (Well, this is not even a very good use of the bulletin board as this cries out for a moderated forum...)

And I do not say that there is also a need for a general open forum or the newsgroup for everyone can post. But those places imply that people will as questions again and again. Having someone, that kind of "cleans up" to limit the number of threads is not part of that idea.

Good proper design and choice of tools employed is always important, regardless if it is a commercial project or a publicly supported product. Using the wrong tools for the wrong purposes is always a bad idea in either way. Trying to force a unsuitable tool to be used for other purposes requiring manual intervention is generally destined to failed in the long run because it won't scale.

[Wazoo]

If you need something for support use an support tool. Depending on your needs use a for example trouble ticket systems. If you want to deal with FAQs and present them properly you'll find many good examples and systems out there. If you need more, build an interactive troubleshooting agent (or whatever you might call it) that guides through some major issues and FAQs but asking questions.

Anyway, a plain two level system (forum & posts) is just inadequate. A discussion forum is just not right for your purposes if you do not want discussions (or at least not in threads/topics that you would like them to be). Discussions are free and that is what this system does.

So, just use the proper tools for the right reasons and you won't need someone to clean up or move messages around...

Best I can tell you, take yourself over to www.spamcop.net and try to follow the Help flow there, you'll find many FAQs already in existence. Fire up your newsreader and head on over to news://news.spamcop.net and pick your newsgroup to fire away in. If you care enough, check through the archives on the newsgroups for the traffic in reference to the creation and movement of support to this web-based thing. I believe you'll find that each and everyone of your just stated concerns were issues of the day back then. What issues I try to handle "here" are limited to working within the structure as it exists, and if you'll take the time here to read some older posts (try the Lounge) .. you'll see there's been a lot of requests to "fix" this place in several ways ....

My point is that your statements appear to have been made without the apparent knowledge that this isn't the "only" place for issues, comments, thoughts, and discussions. And you certainly don't appear to have the historical knowledge of how and why this place came to be. Again, if you care, pointers have been made available to other locations that do address your concerns. And to even point out another small issue, this very Forum section was a break out of an 300+ posting nightmare, as Julian had requested that "all" mail-host issue be placed under his single Topic. I spent three days trying to separate that monster into what you now see under this "section" in the attempt to separate the various issues into "common" problems .. and this was only accomplished after apparently convincing Julian that the "one-topic-for everything" wasn't working for anyone.

Hope this helps.

[gv2]

If you need something for support use an support tool. ... If you need more, build an interactive troubleshooting agent (or whatever you might call it) that guides through some major issues and FAQs but asking questions.

... So, just use the proper tools for the right reasons and you won't need someone to clean up or move messages around...

Best I can tell you, take yourself over to www.spamcop.net and try to follow the Help flow there, you'll find many FAQs already in existence. Fire up your newsreader and head on over to news://news.spamcop.net and pick your newsgroup to fire away in. If you care enough, check through the archives on the newsgroups for the traffic in reference to the creation and movement of support to this web-based thing. ...

My point is that your statements appear to have been made without the apparent knowledge that this isn't the "only" place for issues, comments, thoughts, and discussions.

But this is exactly what I am talking about: you have a mess of information at different places for different purposes and have to put a whole lot of manual work into getting things halfway organised and look good. (It requires a web browser, an internet search engine, the bulletin search engine, a news reader and a groups.google to search through all this information!!) I don't say that you are not doing a great and honourable job (just to make that perfectly clear...) I just say that your time spent for cleaning up the threads in this bulletin board is time that you could do much better things if spamcop was to employ other tools for support.

One example that just comes to my mind because I have to use it so often lately is the Symantec support pages. Even if there are still many things to improve and far from perfect I think it is a good step in the right direction: You are guided through the FAQ pages and it collects necessary information for the support purpose. (Take Ellen's frequent answer: "I need you loginname and for spams the report id...")

This is the web. It has links. Even without a intelligent agent picking the right topics for you this is mainly a problem of presentation. A tool would help a lot but would not necessarily be required. With that, support questions would go support including the necessary information after people had at least a brief look at the FAQs. And the newsgroups and bulletin boards could remain what their purpose is: for open discussion (and extremely messy... ;-)

I did not really follow the bulletin board discussion but I am totally aware that there was a controversy. I usually prefer the newsgroups as you might know.

Gerald

[Ellen]

Actually we *are* aware that the organization of the website is ermm *cough* not the best and also that the help faqs need some work especially in the area of the search capabilty -- what search capability you might ask :-) There is a vast amount of information in the faq area altho actually finding it takes some effort and a lot of luck ...

It's on the to-do list but unfortunately resources are such that it is not that high on the list :-( But yes it is being looked at. And I do apologize about the effort that it takes to find information.

[turetzsr]

...Please note, also, that there is a "Search" option both from the http://www.spamcop.net/ page and also in these fora. Sometimes it is surprising what it does not find but if I try various sets of keywords I can usually find what I'm looking for....

[gv2]

...Please note, also, that there is a "Search" option both from the http://www.spamcop.net/ page and also in these fora.  Sometimes it is surprising what it does not find but if I try various sets of keywords  I can usually find what I'm looking for....

spamcop.net search is google. the forum search was my "bulletin search engine". And my point was that there are so many of them and not just one. And that people have to spent time to get posts in this board nicer organized so that it does not become too chaotic. My point was that open bulletin boards are chaotic and a some web support tool would probably a better tool for the support related issues (that provide functions to do that organizing that people try to do here manually...)

[turetzsr]

...Please note, also, that there is a "Search" option both from the http://www.spamcop.net/ page and also in these fora.  Sometimes it is surprising what it does not find but if I try various sets of keywords  I can usually find what I'm looking for....

spamcop.net search is google. the forum search was my "bulletin search engine". And my point was that there are so many of them and not just one. And that people have to spent time to get posts in this board nicer organized so that it does not become too chaotic. My point was that open bulletin boards are chaotic and a some web support tool would probably a better tool for the support related issues (that provide functions to do that organizing that people try to do here manually...)

...Point taken. But as no one here has any control over anything you're proposing, we'll all just have to wait for the powers that be to get to your suggestions (also proposed by many, many, many others over many, many, many months and years).

...My point was, until the tools are as you propose, use those (like the Search capabilities) that can make things a bit easier on you. <smile>