Spamcop mistakes

[JBerg]

It appears that someone changed something in the SpamCop mail system and made a few mistakes.

1. The registration email for these forums was flagged as a potential spam and placed in my Hold folder. If I hadn't checked, I would never have gotten it.

2. This morning when I marked spam in my Hold folder and then submitted it as spam, my ISP received a copy of each complaint. It appears that SpamCop flagged me as having an unsecured relay since I have my mail auto-bounced to SpamCop for filtering. As a result, my ISP received 43 spam complaints about my mail server and I got a nasty phone call from my ISP threatening to shut me down for spamming.

Since SpamCop continues to view my mail server as a potential suspect even though I'm following instructions by auto-forwarding the email accounts through SpamCop, I can no longer report spam to SpamCop for handling.

This is not the first time this has happened in the last year, but it will certainly be the last time! And if the general errors and screw ups continue, I'll totally stop using SpamCop even though I've been a paying subscriber for more than a year.

As a software engineer, I'm required to do exhaustive testing of my code prior to release. Following my testing it then goes to a QA group for testing. After that it goes to alpha-test sites and then beta-test sites. Only then is it released for general consumption. Given the SpamCop mistakes I've dwelt with, I can only assume a total lack of QA testing and beta testing!

If I was not a paying client, I could understand this. But given that SpamCop receives payment and I'm a paying client, I can not accept such incredibly bad errors! Twice I've had my ISP threaten to shut down my service and once they actually did for 24 hours. All as a result of SpamCop mistakes!

[Merlyn]

How do you know they are Spamcop mistakes? You are assuming they are Spamcop mistakes. I see no evidence of any mistake.

You do have evidence?

[JBerg]

And now I discover that SpamCop has my mail server blacklisted, BECAUSE OF MY OWN spam COMPLAINTS!

Please get my mail server out of the SpamCop blacklist and find a way to keep it out! This is the second time in the last year that my own spam complaints resulted in me being blacklisted!

[JBerg]

How do you know they are Spamcop mistakes?  You are assuming they are Spamcop mistakes.  I see no evidence of any mistake.

You do have evidence?

How do I know it was SpamCop's mistake? Let's follow my logic.

1. This morning I find 43 spams in my Held folder. I mark them and submit them as spam.

2. An hour later my ISP receives 43 spam complaints courtesy of SpamCop.

3. Every one of the spam complaints show me as the SendTo address and my mail server as the relay to the SpamCop mail server.

Any doubt that SpamCop is reporting my mail server as a spam relay based on the spam I submitted? Any doubt as to why my mail server is now on the SpamCop blacklist? Any doubt that I'm majorly pissed off at the moment?

[DavidT]

I think you should immediately send a message to "deputies at spamcop.net" explaining your situation. They can probably help you deal with the SpamCop blacklist issue, as well as the original cause of the situation.

David T.

[JBerg]

Good idea, sending email.

Now since my mail server is blacklisted, want to bet that they won't even get such an email?

And where exactly is the mail address to complain to? I've used the bl[at]admin.spamcop.net mail address to send a complaint. But I'm willing to bet that the blacklist will keep my mail from getting there as well as they won't read it for at least a day (or two).

Damn, but I'm pissed!

[StevenUnderwood]

Good idea, sending email.

Now since my mail server is blacklisted, want to bet that they won't even get such an email?

And where exactly is the mail address to complain to? I've used the bl[at]admin.spamcop.net mail address to send a complaint. But I'm willing to bet that the blacklist will keep my mail from getting there as well as they won't read it for at least a day (or two).

Damn, but I'm pissed!

deputies<at>spamcop.net...They will read it as soon as they get to it, but not because it is in their held mail folder, usually in a few hours.

Usually, if the parser is stopping the parse prematurely and reports your ISP, it is due to a mis-configuration of the mail headers your ISP is adding so the parser will not trust any headers before that. This is one of the reasons for the Mailhost configuration. It tells spamcop what the mail route is for your messages so it can trust them and report further back. The duputies will need a tracking URL and/or a report number from your confirmation email.

Also, if you had checked that report you get every time you hit the "Report as spam" link, you could have caught this before your ISP called you, explain what was happening and get in touch with the deputies before your ISP made the blacklist. That is the reason for the report, to tell you where YOUR repiorts are going to.

[turetzsr]

How do you know they are Spamcop mistakes?  You are assuming they are Spamcop mistakes.  I see no evidence of any mistake.

You do have evidence?

How do I know it was SpamCop's mistake? Let's follow my logic.

1. This morning I find 43 spams in my Held folder. I mark them and submit them as spam.

2. An hour later my ISP receives 43 spam complaints courtesy of SpamCop.

3. Every one of the spam complaints show me as the SendTo address and my mail server as the relay to the SpamCop mail server.

Any doubt that SpamCop is reporting my mail server as a spam relay based on the spam I submitted? Any doubt as to why my mail server is now on the SpamCop blacklist? Any doubt that I'm majorly pissed off at the moment?

...This does not appear to me to be evidence of a mistake by SpamCop. It appears to me evidence of an uncareful SpamCop user who does not first check to see what the SpamCop reporting capability is going to do before (s)he goes ahead and blindly uses it.

...As Miss Betsy would say, "It is a poor workman that blames his tools."

Good idea, sending email.

Now since my mail server is blacklisted, want to bet that they won't even get such an email?

...That's not how it works, AFAIK. SpamCop admins probably know enough about their blocklist to know it is best use to filter, not block, e-mail.

And where exactly is the mail address to complain to? I've used the bl[at]admin.spamcop.net mail address to send a complaint. But I'm willing to bet that the blacklist will keep my mail from getting there as well as they won't read it for at least a day (or two).

<snip>

...DavidT told you:

I think you should immediately send a message to "deputies at spamcop.net" [emphasis mine] explaining your situation.

<snip>

...A word of unsolicited advice: you're full of attitude and it's not helpful in trying to resolve your problem. It would be a good thing, both for you and those of us trying to help you, if you would lose it (the attitude, that is).

[turetzsr]

How do you know they are Spamcop mistakes?  You are assuming they are Spamcop mistakes.  I see no evidence of any mistake.

You do have evidence?

How do I know it was SpamCop's mistake? Let's follow my logic.

1. This morning I find 43 spams in my Held folder. I mark them and submit them as spam.

2. An hour later my ISP receives 43 spam complaints courtesy of SpamCop.

3. Every one of the spam complaints show me as the SendTo address and my mail server as the relay to the SpamCop mail server.

Any doubt that SpamCop is reporting my mail server as a spam relay based on the spam I submitted? Any doubt as to why my mail server is now on the SpamCop blacklist? Any doubt that I'm majorly pissed off at the moment?

...To SpamCop admins: just another example of why Quick Reporting and VER are dangerous in the wrong hands!

[JBerg]

The SpamCop mail web interface has a button of "Submit spam". It pops up an "are you certain" query. But once you click, the spam is submitted. There is nothing to check as to where it's going. It simply goes.

As to misconfigurations. I've been using this method for more than a year. My mail server configuration has not been changed during that time. Twice in the last year this same mistake has happened. I was told the previous time that SpamCop had changed some code and it introduced the problem.

I doubt this is due to a "misconfiguration" suddenly appearing. Nor do I see any way to tell where my reports are going when it simply sends the spam complaints without letting me know.

And the auto-reports that're mailed are not retained nor parsed. I get several hundred spams each day and use SpamCop to avoid having to deal with them. If I spend time parsing the auto-reports, it would be easier for me to simply use the Delete key to delete the spam instead of having it filtered.

I've been reporting the spam out of consideration in trying to help defeat spammers. But given this same error happening twice, I'm no longer willing to report spam. I will not allow SpamCop to make the third identical mistake!

Furthermore I now find out from my ISP that the spam complaints show who the original SendTo address is. Remember the "munging" that is supposed to be done? Now I know why I've been dealing with spammers taking revenge on me lately! It's because they can simply look at the SendTo address and see who got them in trouble! Again, I can not justify complaining about spam when SpamCop fails to remove the SendTo information! While they may munge other items, failure to remove the SendTo address is flat out STUPID!

For now I'll continue using the filtering aspect of SpamCop. However I'm now regretting the $25 I just sent (last week) for upgrading my spam reporting account. And frankly I'm seriously reconsidering even the filtering since this same mistakes are undoubtably causing other problems that I'm not yet aware of!

[turetzsr]

...As another of my SpamCop user colleagues, Merlyn, would say, "You know so little and you know it so fluently."

<snip>

As to misconfigurations. I've been using this method for more than a year. My mail server configuration has not been changed during that time. Twice in the last year this same mistake has happened. I was told the previous time that SpamCop had changed some code and it introduced the problem.

...And yet you continued to use the same method of reporting spam, "simply send[ing] the spam complaints without letting [you] know [where]"?

<snip>I get several hundred spams each day and use SpamCop to avoid having to deal with them. If I spend time parsing the auto-reports, it would be easier for me to simply use the Delete key to delete the spam instead of having it filtered.

...If it's a choice between using SpamCop reporting in a dangerous manner or not using it at all, please opt for the JHD ("just hit delete") choice!

I've been reporting the spam out of consideration in trying to help defeat spammers.

...And it's appreciated.

Furthermore I now find out from my ISP that the spam complaints show who the original SendTo address is. Remember the "munging" that is supposed to be done? Now I know why I've been dealing with spammers taking revenge on me lately! It's because they can simply look at the SendTo address and see who got them in trouble! Again, I can not justify complaining about spam when SpamCop fails to remove the SendTo information! While they may munge other items, failure to remove the SendTo address is flat out STUPID!

...According to SpamCop FAQ: What is this? How does it work? How do I use it?, SpamCop sends a send to address that the ISP can use to reply to the sender of the complaint. But it isn't your e-mail address.

For now I'll continue using the filtering aspect of SpamCop. However I'm now regretting the $25 I just sent (last week) for upgrading my spam reporting account. And frankly I'm seriously reconsidering even the filtering since this same mistakes are undoubtably causing other problems that I'm not yet aware of!

...Pricing:

... we <snip> guarantee a cheerful refund for unused time if things don't work out.

[StevenUnderwood]

There is nothing to check as to where it's going. It simply goes.

There is nothing before the fact, no. But as you later state:

And the auto-reports that're mailed are not retained nor parsed.

That is part of the problem.

If I spend time parsing the auto-reports, it would be easier for me to simply use the Delete key to delete the spam instead of having it filtered.

If you are not going to check the auto-reports, maybe you should stop reporting.

My mail server configuration has not been changed during that time.

Do you know that your ISP amde no changes? It would not necessarily be your server causing the problem. It also could be spamcop, but you have not provided a tracker to determine that.

I will not allow SpamCop to make the third identical mistake!

Have you configured Mailhosts which was implemented to help eliminate, among other things, false reporting of yourself?

Spamcop has never claimed to remove every instance of your email adderss. It claims to try and do that and if you are concerned, you should be checking the reports manually before sending them. You can do that in webmail by forwarding them from the message list screen to your submit email address. Lots more work. I have not munged my information since the first week and have seen no significant increase/decrease in the amount of spam I have received.

For now I'll continue using the filtering aspect of SpamCop. However I'm now regretting the $25 I just sent (last week) for upgrading my spam reporting account.

You do know that the $30 spamcop email service comes with free unlimited email reporting, correct? Are these separate accounts? Above you mentioned a web mail account.

And frankly I'm seriously reconsidering even the filtering since this same mistakes are undoubtably causing other problems that I'm not yet aware of!

Any filtering is likely to cause false positives and false negatives which is why spamcop filters into a held mail folder to be checked by the recipient. Good luck