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[Resolved] Munged/Unmunged 3rd party reports


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Subject Line: [spamCop-List] Re: tekcom & dtag

I just tested it with my ISP account:  with the option set

to accept munged reports, I added my ISP account as a 3rd party

address to receive a spam report.  It was sent munged, as expected.

I then turned on the "refuse munged reports" option for the ISP

account, then reported a spam as usual but adding my ISP abuse

account as a 3rd party.

SC sent the report un-munged, without warning that it would be sent


So from this single test, it appears that if a reporting address

(such as spoof -at- paypal.com) has been registered as an ISP

account address with SC, and has set the "refuse munged reports"

option for that SC ISP account, then any 3rd party reports sent

will silently be sent un-munged.

I don't know if there is any way for a SC reporter to check

to see if a 3rd party address has been registered as an ISP with

SC, and if so whether they accept munged reports or not.

Don Wannit

This escalated into including the FAQ .....

I sent a query to Don/Deputies ....

>spamcop newsgroup

>Original title: tekcom & dtag (started 8/4/05)

>Jump in point: Don Wannit post - Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 11:18:45 -0700

>Message-ID: <dd2uu6$a04$1[at]news.spamcop.net>


>As the story is told, the ISP setting of "only receive

>unmunged reports" overrides the reporter's setting

>of "send munged reports" .....


>So the question is .. change in codebase a bug, a

>change in philosophy, FAQ needs rewritten ...????

My testing agrees with what the users are saying.

I submitted a bug report about it and posted in the .spamcop forum.

- Don -

(Note: posted into the spamcop newsgroup, unfortunately with the 'no archive' flag, so it's not available in the above referenced archives ... that post provided next ..)

I submitted a bug report asking that SpamCop be set to only send

unmunged "User Notify" reports if the user's Preferences are set to

allow it, or otherwise, to pop-up the standard warning message/dialog

box and give the user the opportunity to choose.

I suspect the scenario of a user sending a personal report to an abuse

address that won't accept unmunged reports wasn't considered when the

code was written.

- Don -

Then RW added a couple of posts:

Mike Easter wrote:

> Currently the faq sez that mungeing is performed according to reporter

> preferences.  That has been proven false for the case of additionals.

> Ergo the faq is false, a lie, a misrepresentation.

Since that is part of the preferences webpage and not a faq, I can't

change the wording or post a warning.  Technically, the second part is

incorrect as well, depending how you read it:

"If you select intact spam copies, SpamCop will send all reports


AFAIK, selecting 'intact' still only affects those that refuse munged

reports and means the checkbox on the parsing page is checked by

default.  Reports to other ISPs who accept munged reports, get munged



and a bit further down the thread;

Mike has provided most of the right answers, but a little background:

ISPs have always had the ability to refuse to accept SpamCop reports.

Some major ISPs were starting to do just that because their legal

departments were screaming that they couldn't action anonymous

complaints.  Others were concerned some tampering with headers leaves

room for suspicion of other tampering.  To prevent the complete refusal

of SC reports,  Julian entered into a compromise that ISPs could refuse

munged reports.

Next came the ability to refuse certain types of reports (originating,

hosting, relaying, etc.).  Finally, when all users were given the option

of entering user targeted addresses, ISPs were given the option of

refusing those too, because some users were abusing it.

Julian also didn't want unmunged reports to be sent by default and want

users to be aware the report would be sent unmunged, so he programmed

the checkbox to be off by default and use java scri_pt to pop up the

warning when the user checked the box.  IIRC, the default used to also

be that you clicked "cancel" instead of "OK" to keep the box checked,

just to make sure the user read the text.

Then came along the problem of users that couldn't/wouldn't allow

java scri_pt.  I foget if it meant they couldn't check the box to send

unmunged reports or if it froze the browser, but that is where the

default option was put in the user preferences.

The intent is, if the user has the preference checked for 'munged only',

they get the defaulted off checkbox and popup.  If the user has selected

'send unmunged', the box should appear checked by default (therefore no

java scri_pt popus to contend with).

The problem of sending munged vs unmunged for user notifies is a

different problem, but has to do with the order things are done.  When

parsing, SC checks the ISP account and sees the unmunged only or refusal

flag, so can take that into account when displaying the parsing page.

SC doesn't know you're going to enter a user notify until you send the

data to SC, i.e., hit send.  By then it's too late.  SC can't come back

with an 'are you sure'.  It does check the database though and will

report back refusals and redirected addresses.

I do agree this is an unintentional step in sending unmunged reports to

user notifies based on the ISP preferences, but I'm not sure of a way

around it.  I suppose our easiest option will be to set ISP accounts to

'refuse user notifies' as we come across those that refuse munged reports.

Now that I've refreshed the messages and see Don posted, this might all

be moot.  It may also be the the refuse route is the easiest (and maybe

the only) one.


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There are three types of SpamCop Reports that can be sent to addresses that the Parser did not figure out for itself: User Defined Recipient Reports, Third Party Source Reports, Third Party URL Reports, and User Notification Reports. Of these, only the addresses for User Notification Reports are entered by the User/Reporter manually on the Parse Page, everything else has a Checkbox. Are we, therefore, only discussing the sending of munged User Notification Reports to ISPs that don't want them? If so, we should get our terminology correct.

Ref: SpamCop Report Types

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SpamCop reporter selects Preference setting of "Obscure identifying information"

A spam is parsed.

It is determined that a 3rd party should be added as an additional notify.

If this 3rd party has already set that account to "only receive unmunged reports" ...

The 3rd party report goes out unmunged with no warning, pop-up, extra-text description, etc. of the reporter's preferences settings being overridden.

Note/Edit - situation is addressed in another Announcement .. see http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=5251

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