Wazoo Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Starting with the last couple threads in the spamcop.help newsgroup .... fallout from one of the last Parsing & Reporting system outages. The background; when that part of the SpamCop.net system goes down or has issues; 1. www.spamcop.net disappears 2. folks can't log in to paste-in their spam to report 3. e-mail account holders can't use part of the system, log in via certain methods, as those methods actually connect to www.spamcop.net 4. no way to "check" status of www.spamcop.net other than flipping a coin and deciding that it's not your browser / connectivity that's lost 5. Don / Deputies can't login to post a message about status being down because they can't log in wither 6. Once upon a time, when there was a database issue or that side of the service went down, there were usually hundreds of newsgroup posts made from people that wanted to be the first to ask/announce that they thought the server was down, not bothering to read that 999 people had already posted the same thing. Numerous offers were made by several people, myself included, to host a "status" site that would show whether www.spamcop.net was alive or not, but (dating back to the days when Julian was doing it all "from the house") that offer was never acted upon. Now here we are, a number of years down the road ... the spamcop system has its various functions split among IronPort stuff on the west coast and JT's stuff on the east coast. Yet, the same issue is still around. www.spamcop.net reporting systems go down and/or have database issues, and trouble is evident .. folks still posting about "is it down?" .."spam that blows SpamCop up" ... "I can't login" ... "Is SpamCop dead?" ... "Is there a DDoS attack going on?" .. etc. etc. etc.. In response to some of the fallout from one of the last www.spamcop.net dropouts, I replied to folks posting some of the above questions/remarks in the spamcop.help newsgroup and pointed out that there was in fact a status graphic / link to be found "here" ... and of course, then came the usual "don't use the Forum, won't use the Forum" crap .. somehow ignoring I never said one "had to use" the Forum, only that the status link was available on the top of the page. (Before I forget, and again noting that not all traffic is in the archives due to some folks using the X-No-Archive flag, see the last couple of threads at http://news.spamcop.net/pipermail/spamcop-...ary/thread.html ) A number of months back, Ellen took it personal when I remarked about the status updates on the Reporting system downtime and problems .. she again even pointed out that when that system went down, there was no way for her to post any kind of an update because "the system was down" .. (which I thought made exactly the point I was describing ...???) Well, today, another challenge was made .. why am I posting the link to see a Forum page (or the portal page) when I could just as well point folks to the http://www.spamcop.net/spamgraph.shtml?spamstats to see the "real" statistics page ..... can someone please help me to sort out the "if www.spamcop.net is down" why pointing someone to http://www.spamcop.net/spamgraph.shtml?spamstats is a 'wonderful' idea????? (and not to ignore that this www.spamcop.net web-page is just a 'wrapper' as the actual graphic is actually pulled from a cesmail server [one of JT's] which is why the graphic works even when www.spamcop.net is totally down) By the way, some old newsgroup posts to show that an off-site status monitor was not simply my "brand new" idea .... Just a few ancient links from the newsgroup archives ... http://news.spamcop.net/pipermail/spamcop-...uly/052059.html http://news.spamcop.net/pipermail/spamcop-...uly/051968.html Some of my specific newsgroup posts ... http://news.spamcop.net/pipermail/spamcop-...ary/057764.html http://news.spamcop.net/pipermail/spamcop-...ber/058551.html http://news.spamcop.net/pipermail/spamcop-...une/044681.html http://news.spamcop.net/pipermail/spamcop-...rch/035775.html there's a lot more, a lot older, I just got tired of looking .... The user that got upset because the graphic / link wasn't showing on the web-mail page (as I suggested ????) is just another fringe element on this whole scenario. Mike Easter has provided his instructions on what I should do .... anyone 'here' have some even better ideas? I'm getting pretty damn tired of trying to provide resources and access to data and running into brick walls / having bricks tossed like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenUnderwood Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Mike Easter has provided his instructions on what I should do .... anyone 'here' have some even better ideas? I'm getting pretty damn tired of trying to provide resources and access to data and running into brick walls / having bricks tossed like this.40257[/snapback] Wazoo, I know it is not your way, but I would simply stop trying to help there. Howoften do you need to have your hand bitten while feeding stange dogs before you stop???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farelf Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 While I don't know the detail of Mike Easter's "instructions", I would be inclined to go along with Steven's advice. Two cultures, I've said before - each with the normal range of abilities, experience, knowledge and wisdom. Undeniably, those who are comfortable in both have the potential to benifit both, but then the "territorial imperative" thing comes in to play c.f. the ever-controversial Robert Ardrey - the Amity-Enmity complex from his The Territorial Imperative or, as some would put it, "Don't say boo! to a goose." (or feed strange dogs). Hard sometimes to remember we are all on the same side. In the larger picture "we" are fighting at both the center and at the periphery. That can't be good. In fact it's unnatural Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 Just so there's no misunderstanding, Mike and I go back for quite a ways, and his comments/suggestions were just more of the same .. no real problem there beyond disagreeing about the details ... the thing that's got me going on this is the query from the party that has been around spamcop probably longer than I have, and has the technical background to understand the oddity of the statement / query made. As I repeated and queried about, it's the logic behind pointing to http://www.spamcop.net/spamgraph.shtml?spamstats if the purpose of said pointing is because http://www.spamcop.net is down .... I'm really struggling with that logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farelf Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Yes, it was evident from the first that your "opponent" was demonstratably irrational. I'm trying to say the reactions you are getting are driven by instinct. If so, you shouldn't expect the behaviors/pronouncements to always be logical, or for the perpetrator(s) to be interested in conceding their irrationality. They're people, not angels. You raise their hackles. If you can accept that's not your fault you can walk away. If you can't then you are letting someone else (who has certainly not earned the right) to push your buttons. Or you can have a rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Betsy Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 IMHO, there is no reason why you can't post as many times as you want to, to as many people as you want to, when there is an outage, that there is a status graph on the forum. I might put it this way: If anyone is interested in the status of spamcop.net (particularly if one can't log in, etc.), there is a status graph on the forum. If you do not want to access the forum to see the status graph, then you can wait until spamcop.net comes back up. And totally ignore any negative comments about the forum - especially irrational ones. Frog Prince has a good line (which I can't quote) about short cutting the time to forgive by not being offended in the first place. Miss Betsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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