My mail provider source of spam?

[toastednut]

I received spam which was then attributed to my mail provider (amihost.com/amhosting.com). They fined me $250 for false spam reporting. Obviously I didn't send the spam to myself from my own domain which was hosted on a shared (re:limited access to me) cpanel server. What's going on here? Note I have moved hosting providers due to subpar service if you were to do a current lookup of my domain.

My mail forward setup at the time: unknown8bit.org/amhosting.com > spamcop.net mailbox

What also doesn't make sense to me is why should it matter what forwarding address I have my domain set to if it ultimately lands in my Spamcop mailbox, which is how I have all my domains set up (see email below). So I reset the forward to a mac.com address and my (now former) mail provider ToSed me with $250 anyway.

http://www.spamcop.net/mcgi?action=gettrac...rtid=2047448206

Your help is appreciated,

Liz

-----

Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 18:02:01 -0800 [sun, 3 Dec, 2006 18:02:01 PST]

From: Stephen Satchell <abuse[at]amhosting.com>

To: "Poor, Spammed Soul" <2047448206[at]reports.spamcop.net>

Cc: SpamCop/Ellen <deputies[at]spamcop.net>

Subject: Re: [spamCop (204.10.137.168) id:2047448206]Corel Draw

Headers: Show All Headers

American Internet, Inc. takes spam reports seriously. After

investigating this report against 204.10.147.168, and another Spamcop

report from you against the same server, I found that the source of the

spam was a default mail routing for domain "unknown8bit.org" on our

CPanel3 server.

So that the spam will stop, I have removed the default (or "catch-all")

forwarder to <toastednut[at]spamcop.net>, as well as the explicit forwarder

to the same address for <liz[at]unknown8bit.org> on our CPanel3 server.

Spamcop is unable, without a proper mailhost list, to traverse the list

to finger the real spammer. So I have removed the forwarding.

In future, you may create a POP3 mailbox on "unknown8bit.org", but you

may not forward mail to a Spamcop mailbox.

I have made a note in the record for this domain. Any further Spamcop

reports via CPanel3 because of a forward or default mail will cause me

to terminate your account for TOS/AUP violation.

I have a hard enough time keeping mail service working for you, my

customer, without you laying bombs under my feet.

Respectfully,

Stephen Satchell

Abuse Investigator and Mail Administrator

American Internet, Inc.

[Wazoo]

Things sound pretty clear from this side of the screen. You were reporting yourself/your ISP. What exactly do you think you need help with at this point? You've already basically ignored the agreement you made when signiing up for a Reporting Account .. specifically, that you are the one responsible for which reports go out and where there are targeted to go ....

Why does it matter? ... well, shucks, guess what, some folks get upset along the way when bad reporting is involved.

You want something specific about what got you into this mess? You'd have to provide something for 'us volunteers' to actually 'see' .. usually handled by your providing a Tracking URL ... (not a Report-ID) .. but the scenario you paint is simply all to familiar. Things like this have led to things like the single-page-access-much-expanded SpamCop FAQ here, the Dictionary, the Glossary, the Wiki, on and on .... MailHost Configuration of your Reporting Account was codebase change to try to prevent this from happening. On and on ....

[toastednut]

and after combing and combing this site this is clear how? I've searched and read numerous branches of links off of "Help" but indeed it is difficult to find any real help. I know it is easy to get numb to a UI if you've used to too long but ask any person who has never seen your Help pages how it is organized.

So the report ID URL and tracking URL are not the same?

[rcrd2111]

I've searched and read numerous branches of links off of "Help" but indeed it is difficult to find any real help.

Maybe this is another example illustrating the need for plain-english and comprehensive help for the SC service? I for one am still finding things out by default!

[Wazoo]

and after combing and combing this site this is clear how? I've searched and read numerous branches of links off of "Help" but indeed it is difficult to find any real help.

That statement indicates that you are taling about the 'Official' FAQ found on the www.spamcop.net pages.

However, you are posting into the Forum ..... Try one of the SpamCop FAQ links at the top of this page ... try one of the Wiki links at the top of this page. These are but a few changes offered here after the years of complaints about the 'Official' FAQ .... All of the links, hints, Bold Text stuff, letters in Red, on and on were placed there to offer the chance of seeing these things, using one of the Search tools also provided ... even the simple act of reading a few previous posts/Topics/Discussions prior to posting wouldn't hurt. Note the "user-to-user" tags I placed all ocer the place.

I know it is easy to get numb to a UI if you've used to too long but ask any person who has never seen your Help pages how it is organized.

Had you attempted to look at the SpamCop FAQ found "here" .... you would have seen that there is no one "here" that can touch that "Official FAQ" . which has been complained about for years. I tried to do something about the complaints by installing other tools, creating alternate resources, etc. I can't help it if you skipped over all the other things I put in your way "here" to try to get those things before your eyes.

So the report ID URL and tracking URL are not the same?

Technical terms - defined in the Dictionary, the Glossary, the Wiki .... all found "here"

One FAQ entry "here" for instance: Getting a Tracking URL from a Report ID

Maybe this is another example illustrating the need for plain-english and comprehensive help for the SC service? I for one am still finding things out by default!

And ...???? If you aren't going to actually get involved, why continue to beat on your dead horse?

As stated in Reply to several of your previous posts of this nature, the FAQs here have been developed by other users, the How to use ... Forum section content was developed by other users ... the Wiki is being (well rather 'should be') added to/edited by other users .....

There is absolutely nothing stopping you from getting specific about a FAQ entry "here" that you think needs help ... see the FAQ Development Forum section ....

If you're not even going to look at all this previously done work, time, energy, knowledge shared by other users . there's not much else that can be said. But I'm going to have to ask you to stop making this "same" post, over and over ....

[turetzsr]

Maybe this is another example illustrating the need for plain-english and comprehensive help for the SC service? I for one am still finding things out by default!

<snip>

If you're not even going to look at all this previously done work, time, energy, knowledge shared by other users . there's not much else that can be said. But I'm going to have to ask you to stop making this "same" post, over and over ....

...But please do post questions (the SpamCop Lounge would probably be the best place; alternatively, you can send me PMs) pointing to parts of the SpamCop FAQ or Glossary or Wiki that you feel are not "plain-english" and together we can try to work out alternative wording. Thanks!

[rcrd2111]

As stated in Reply to several of your previous posts of this nature, the FAQs here have been developed by other users, the How to use ... Forum section content was developed by other users ... the Wiki is being (well rather 'should be') added to/edited by other users .....

Frankly Wazoo, I am amazed!! I've only ever made one previous posting regarding this. It was polite and courteous and reflected the way I feel. However, if that's the way a newbie gets spoken to then maybe I should withdraw.

[turetzsr]

<snip>

if that's the way a newbie gets spoken to then maybe I should withdraw.

...No, you should not. Please try not to be overly sensitive to responses from Wazoo. If you scan around the SpamCop Forum, you will find at least as many cases where he has helped newbies as where he has alienated them; he is getting (reasonably, IMHO) touchy about the lack of effort of many newbies in doing their own research and appearing to expect lots of effort to be expended on their behalf by us volunteers because they're "too busy" (as if were aren't). Consider the bottom line of what he is saying and not how he is saying it: rather than complain about how bad the FAQ, etc, are, here, pitch in and help! <g>

[Miss Betsy]

Maybe this is another example illustrating the need for plain-english and comprehensive help for the SC service? I for one am still finding things out by default!

You are not the first to complain about 'plain english' - various suggestions have been put forward on how to make the User Created FAQ more readable by non-technically fluent people. Note that there is nothing that anyone can do about the 'official' FAQ found on the spamcop website or the directions on how to find the proper forum to ask questions.

The Wiki was established to make it easier for people to find what they needed. My personal feeling is that there are too many places to find information and that there should be one avenue to the FAQ - going from simple to more complex. Unfortunately, due to the way that people come to the forum, that is practically impossible.

It also makes a difference on what you want to know. There are two services: the Reporting Service and the Email Service. And it makes a difference on what you want to do - resolve a particular problem or explore all the possible uses.

It is hard to remember what one had a hard time with when first starting which is why those who find it difficult need to be specific about what needs to be explained. When I first started, I didn't get confused between a Report ID vs a Tracking URL, but I thought that if you wanted to save the Tracking URL, you clicked on it and it was saved. The problem was I didn't know where to find it again. I also had no problem in understanding that it was not a good idea to report my ISP so I don't know how that could be made clearer. The Forward as Attachment had me confused as well and I could not find anything in the 'official' FAQ that explained it so in the User Created FAQ here in the forum, it is clearly indicated how to forward as attachment. Of course, if you don't know that the way you are forwarding is the problem, you wouldn't look there either. You would be probably looking for not getting return emails or error messages. I almost never can find what I want by searching FAQs (not just spamcop's) so I disagree with Wazoo that people should be able to find the answer. My idea was to use the FAQs as template answers either copying them or pointing to them as links.

All in all, manual writing is not easy to do. It is amazing how many different ways a particular paragraph can be understood. And it is not easy to make it simple - do you realize how many words and steps you need to use just to instruct someone on how to stamp an envelope? You can't say 'put stamp in corner' - there are four corners (8 if you count the reverse). Where do they get stamps in the first place? How many ways can you buy stamps? The technically minded don't want you to skip any information - even though most people buy stamps by the book and to the non-technically minded that's all that's all the info needed. They don't want to know how many different ways you can get stamps. But, if you leave out any way, there is sure to be someone who will buy a roll of stamps and then complain that the directions weren't clear. That's my suggestion - to start out with buy a stamp with a link to how many different ways you can buy stamps that the interested can look at, but those who just want to get the letter stamped don't have to.

However, a fresh look at how things could be clearer is always appreciated. Specific suggestions need to be used - not 'organize better' but 'identify User Created FAQ from 'official' FAQ' (I find it really annoying to find myself back at the spamcop site. I would like the FAQ on a particular subject here in the forum separated into 'official' FAQ and User Created FAQ. Sometimes what you need to know is in the official FAQ, but if you look at it and you've already read it and didn't understand, then you can see if there is more explanation in the User Created FAQ)

Miss Betsy

[turetzsr]

...Nicely said, Miss Betsy (as usual)!

It also makes a difference on what you want to know. There are two services: the Reporting Service and the Email Service.

<snip>

..Actually, it's a bit "worse" -- there is a third service: the SpamCop blacklist.

[Wazoo]

Actually, it's a bit "worse" -- there is a third service: the SpamCop blacklist.

One of those little things that is attempted to be shown by that initial bold entry titled

Start Here - before you make your first Post that everyone seems to simply ignore ......

Dang, yet another thing that needs to be updated so as to also show the Wiki availability ....

[Miss Betsy]

...Nicely said, Miss Betsy (as usual)!..Actually, it's a bit "worse" -- there is a third service: the SpamCop blacklist.

There aren't very many questions on how to use the scbl. There are a few FAQ on setting up ISP accounts, but are there any FAQ on how to use the scbl?

But you are probably referring to those who want to know /why/ they are on the scbl... and that is a whole entire set of FAQ for end users and server admins both!!!

Miss Betsy

[turetzsr]

There aren't very many questions on how to use the scbl. There are a few FAQ on setting up ISP accounts, but are there any FAQ on how to use the scbl?

But you are probably referring to those who want to know /why/ they are on the scbl... and that is a whole entire set of FAQ for end users and server admins both!!!

Miss Betsy

...Actually, I was referring to the (mostly "official") SpamCop FAQ entries on how admins can use the BL and related topics.

SpamCop Blocking List Service

How do I configure my mailserver to reject mail based on the blocklist?

What is on the list?

How can I be de-listed

One-time automatic BL De-listing

How much does it cost?

Is it possible to download the entire blocklist?

How can I check if an IP is on the list?

If my IP is listed, does it mean I am a spammer or my ISP hosts spammers?

Why can't I get to the blocking list from ATT's network?

NEW! SCBL "will be delisted in 0 hours" (now shown as 'in a short time') explained

Anyway, my comment was not really directed at you but only to address the statement of how many SpamCop services there are; specifically not intending it to be in context with the rest of your post, in which you explicitly exclude consideration of the "official" FAQ.

[Wazoo]

There aren't very many questions on how to use the scbl. There are a few FAQ on setting up ISP accounts, but are there any FAQ on how to use the scbl?

The "Official" FAQ basically points out the use of SpamAssassin for *NIX systems. I had a whole page done up under the D2-FAQ that isn't now available that addressed Windows users and some other third-party tools. I'm close to the crashing stage at present or I'd open up yet another window to check the Wiki .. leave that for someone else to check for now ....

[Farelf]

The "Official" FAQ basically points out the use of SpamAssassin for *NIX systems. I had a whole page done up under the D2-FAQ that isn't now available that addressed Windows users and some other third-party tools. I'm close to the crashing stage at present or I'd open up yet another window to check the Wiki .. leave that for someone else to check for now ....

Can't see anything about use of SCBL there, offhand. The "Official" FAQ is at How can I use the blocklist without mailserver configuration? and mentions for Windows users etc are included in the topic Who uses the blocklist?