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kae

A possible pinned subject?

13 posts in this topic

I was looking around the forums using Search and was really having trouble finding what I was looking for, which was if spamcop supports incoming SMTP from a spamcop user's email app using TLS or SSL.

After much searching without finding anything, I started just poking around looking through forums for any hint of smtp setup information. I finally found one mention of what I was looking for and then I lost it and couldn't find it again. I think it was Jeff's setup page, but I swear I can't find that again. Anyway, I found another one from wazoo and copied the text string I was looking for and it is below:

The SpamCop E-Mail system does not presently offer SMTP (outgoing) service.

I tried these strings with search (all forums):

spamcop SMTP setup

spamcop SMTP support

spamcop SMTP configure

spamcop SMTP service

and didn't get anything. If I type a part of the phrase above:

system does not presently offer SMTP

I finally get wazoo's post on the matter. I'm now wondering if all search strings get interpreted as "these words in this order exactly".

Is this how the search works? Is there something wrong with the search engine? Is there something wrong with me? (Now be nice, I have this trouble with most search engines, so it's certainly possible that I'm just search inept, but at least be nice about it). Okay, I just confirmed that it's me that made the mistake. I did just try putting the word "AND" between those words and did find somethings. So, this search wants the and/or/not phrases apparently. I guess I should read the search FAQ. :P

Anyway, what I was wondering is if there should be a pinned item about there not being any SMTP support for users to send mail from their email applications external to spamcop. Maybe I'll go look again and see if there's support now.

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I just searched for "SMTP service" and the forst 2 links look relevant:

SpamCop Discussion > Lack of SMTP Service

SpamCop Discussion > No Spamcop SMTP?

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Seems like from time to time a number of users have been surprised by the lack of SMTP service. Which would make it a good idea to make that factoid a little more visible. Can't say I can replicate your difficulty in getting search results though. I used one of your strings spamcop SMTP service and the second match of "about 2,220" was http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?...ost&p=16846 which seems fairly pertinent at first blush (not being a mail user and a technological ignoramus to boot). This is using the search facility at the top of these forum pages. There is a higher-level search somewhere - http://www.spamcop.net/help.shtml - which should give the same result if set to search the forums. I did manage to cause confusion and incomprehension once talking about results found using that one when everyone else was talking about the other but can't see how that could be now.

Anyhow, the raw fact of The SpamCop E-Mail system does not presently offer SMTP (outgoing) service being made more obvious? As said, seems reasonable to me, a positive suggestion - some people will miss seeing it no matter what is done, but assume from your "journey of discovery" it is not in any of the more obvious places (haven't looked I must confess). Seems like dbiel (whom I ask to excuse my impertinence) might be well-placed to sort this one out.

[sp]

Edited by Farelf

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Talking of searches, I homed in on the second match as mentioned above because the first, while it looked highly relevant, ended up at http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=4566 From the digest quoted in the search result, it should actually have ended up at http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=3823 I have noticed similar mismatches before - no great impediment yet it really ought not to happen. Seem to recall we got some pointers all awry with "moved" topics once but even so ... no doubt it all adds to the despair of the desperate. Incidentally, it is my impression that Steven's search (omitting the term spamcop) came up with the same topmost results as mine.

[expanded]

Edited by Farelf

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Does SpamCop offer an SMTP server for sending out email?

No. Many spammers would love to sign up for spamcop and send spam just to discredit the service. You will need to use your ISP's SMTP server or check out Jeff G.'s Hotspot SMTP-Auth Provider Status Report for other SMTP services.

You can also send email using webmail. I suppose it would be possible to use IMAP to transfer a message from your local client to the drafts folder, log into webmail and send it from there if you are desperate, though I have never tried that.

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The following link to this topic has been added to the FAQ:

SMTP - it is NOT offered by SpamCop

This link has now been changed to read: Does SpamCop offer an SMTP server for sending out email?

One may also want to look at the updated Glossary entry SMTP or the soon to be announced Wiki version SMTP

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... Seems like dbiel (whom I ask to excuse my impertinence) might be well-placed to sort this one out.
Apropos of which, some more links (from one of those prev. mentioned) http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?...ost&p=25434 - branching to http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?...dpost&p=347 and http://www.spamcop.net/ces/setup_pop2.shtml (can't do anything about that one but relevant).

Previous resolve to make it better known/more visible ... yet still a bit obscure, it seems. Hence the OP's topic starter. With Steven's thoughts on reason for SMTP to stay "off the menu" very important to anticipate inevitable queries.

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Keep in mind that many, if not most, business email accounts do not offer remote SMTP services either. They require that one logs into their mail services first and then create and send the message from the protected application, rather than accepting it from a remote application.

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Geeze ... and this within minutes of posting into the spamcop newsgroup;

> If you know what the two lines say, why not just say them? If you are

> going to find the link to the forum faq, why not just paste in the 2

> lines and forget about the forum link?

I paste in two lines, the argument is then "who the hell am I?"

I say it came from an e-mail from Don, folks challenge that "inside

info" remark with no substance.

Geeze Mike, I've been there too many times already.

Your stance, take them by the hand and lead them down the path.

Me, here's the/some data, do some of your own research ... be prepared

to be amazed at some of the other stuff you will pick up along the way.

OK there's a lot of ground covered here .... technically most should be addressed elsewhere, but ....

The word link "Search" kicks one to the internal Forum search tool. There is a Help function for it, but I'll admit that it and the search function itself are pretty weak, and there are several obvious issues. That's why I added in the Google search box thing at the top of the screen. Sometimes very aggravating, the internal search doesn't find anything of value, the Google search leaves one drowning in the results.

SSL is a killer as it's only three characters long, the internal search tool (actually a PHP/MySQL configuration/response-time issue) demands a minimum of four characters in a word. Everytime it comes up, I have to look for it myself (yet another note, why don't I have a FAQ entry for it yet?) .... so I use the Google box, and as I know that I have replied on this subject, I'll plug in < SSL +wazoo > and seach the Forum ... this says look for any posts with SSL, filter those by showing only those that also have 'wazoo' in the same post. Used to be that this would only bring up my previous replies .... in the future the Topic starting post will show up because both terms are in that post. (Farelf has found some posts for me when I ran out of ideas on what to search for, so you're not alone <g>) The problem in most cases is that you must conceive of how someone else posted the data you're looking for and wading around the mire in trying to best-guess the words that someone else used to describe the data you're looking for.

SMTP - ages and eons ago, back when Julian pretty much had everything under control 'from the house' did offer SMTP for SpamCop.net e-mail users, although it was limited to a Command-Line interface ... which basically meant that out of 200 users, perhaps 15 knew how to use it. Yet, that small percentage did in fact cause enough problems/issues that this capability was removed. JT came along a bit later, volunteered some of his services/hardware, nore stiff happened, expanded, evolved, and here we are today.

So basically. it was never available to the masses ... the description and set-up pages currently available only talk about getting mail into and out of the SpamCop.net InBox. Outgoing e-mail service is provided via the webmail tool (which technically is "your SMTP interface") ... but what most people desire is to have their e-mail client handle that interface. However, that capability/mode is not stated anywhere in the pages involved. For example, http://mail.spamcop.net/individuals.php states:

If you want, you can read your email using the excellent webmail program we provide. This program lets you read and send mail, manage your address book, and download attachments all from any computer with a web browser. Or, you can set your email program (like Outlook Express, Eudora, Netscape, or others) to read your mail off our servers.

Noting that "sending" e-mail via your client is obvious in its absence ....

The mismatch things .... hard to account for such things these days .... I think I just caught up with my code changes in this installed version a night or two ago ... the database still has extra crap in it, for example an embedded Glossary I installed on the 2.1.6 install really didn't work, so didn't bother messing with installing it in the 2.1.7. install, but the database tables were carried forward. I added some code to 'identify' more search engine bots ... not noted anywhere was the result of that code change ... I now have to empty the bot logs every few days now, else that table grows to extremely unbelievable sizes .... somewhere in the next few days, I'm planning on doing a lot of cleanup work ... will do a recount, resynch, re-a-bunch-of-other-stuff ... maybe get things back on order????

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One may also want to take a look at the soon to be announced Wiki entry SpamCop Email Account

The point being, yes we are trying to make it more visible.

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I just saw Wazoo's post. I did notice that the search I was using wasn't like a google search. I'm glad I'm not the only one with Search'abilititus (that's trouble with the ability to find anything when searching).

I worked on a project a while back that used lucene for searching. It was really fast. Has the forum dev team thought about trying it? It's 100% Java. Not sure if that would work for the spamcop web services side though.

I'm not making a request to have spamcop provide a secure SMTP server that accepts email anywhere on the network. I know my ISP that I've had for 16 years (which all funnels through spamcop) didn't provide SMTP services for passing email unless the machine was hosted on their network. Now they provide TLS with a login and password. I'm sure that's probably breakable too.

Anyway, I just thought it might be a good bullet point for either a pinned topic or a top level FAQ topic that spamcop does not provide for an outgoing SMTP server to put in client mail apps. Sounds like dbiel already added it. Thanks!

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... Seems like dbiel (whom I ask to excuse my impertinence) might be well-placed to sort this one out.
Apropos of which, some more links (from one of those prev. mentioned) http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?...ost&p=25434 - branching to http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?...dpost&p=347 and http://www.spamcop.net/ces/setup_pop2.shtml (can't do anything about that one but relevant).

Previous resolve to make it better known/more visible ... yet still a bit obscure, it seems. Hence the OP's topic starter. With Steven's thoughts on reason for SMTP to stay "off the menu" very important to anticipate inevitable queries.

Cross linking in the forum is just too much work from my point of view. It is much easier done in the Wiki, which will be announced shortly.

I guess Wazoo would say that I have already announced it by including links to it; but those links technical still go to the old version that will shortly be replaced with the new version, so the links should continue to work. Also the the specific links posted have been updated with copies of the data as found on the new version site. More information will be made avaiable when it is publicly announced, but in the mean time I will continue to point to it as a source of FAQ information; unless of course Wazoo slaps my hand. Have just spent too many hours on it to not make use of it.

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Anyway, I just thought it might be a good bullet point for either a pinned topic or a top level FAQ topic that spamcop does not provide for an outgoing SMTP server to put in client mail apps. Sounds like dbiel already added it. Thanks!

Which brings me/us right back around to the newsgroup post I'd made just prior to hitting this Topic ... another snippet from that post, amazingly fitting 'here' ...

Once again, the Forum version of the SpamCop FAQ has always been open

for input, as were the three other versions of a FAQ tool, and the Wiki will

be (should be open for all in a few days) .... The continued complaints

about the original/official FAQ being bad, incomplete, out-of-date, whatever is

bad enough and seemingly a total waste of time, but .... opportunities to 'fix'

the / an alternative have been available for a couple of years now ....I keep trying

to add more .... will note that Dbiel states that he's only received three

nibbles to his invitations for folks to get involved.

I say thanks also !!!

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