@%$*&!£ Freeserve!!!! Please help!

[Sarah]

Hi, sorry if this is long but I'm just totally at the end of my tether with my ISP, UK based Freeserve.

I use OE 6 to forward spam emails as attachments to Spamcop free reporting service. I receive about 10 a day and have always forwarded them that way. A couple of weeks ago, the 11 I sent all bounced with the following message and so has every one I've tried to send since:

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its

recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

submit.CNq0xxxxxxxxxMSn[at]spam.spamcop.net

This message has been rejected because it has

an apparently executable attachment "Re_ I didn't feel good last week wks u i iccphvfww.eml"

This is a virus prevention measure.

If you meant to send this file then please

package it up as a zip file and resend it.

If you did not send this message originally

it is likely that a virus falsely used your

address.

I asked about this here and Jeff said that it seemed likely that Freeserve are bouncing my emails because they have tagged all .eml extensions as viruses. Well to cut a very long story short, I have been battling with them ever since. This is their latest idea about what the problem is:

We are aware that certain anti-spam organisations such as Spamhaus and

Spamcop are blacklisting some of our mailservers for outgoing mail due

to a very small percentage of our Members using our service to send

spam. These lists are used by a number of organisations worldwide to

determine who in turn they blacklist. This is the cause of the failure

to deliver the email you were trying to send.

This issue does not only affect Freeserve, but also many other ISP's.

The issue has been forwarded to the Freeserve Mail Operations Team who

are working to resolve the problem as a matter of urgency. The details

you have kindly provided are necessary to help correctly identify the

organisation which is applying the blacklist.

I just don't see how that can be the answer. This only happens with emails that have emails as attachments - all others get through. It happens no matter where or to whom I send them, anywhere in the world, to any ISP recipient. I cannot even forward an email as an attachment to myself. I do not have an account with spamcop or any other anti-spam organisation and I definately do not have a virus. I have checked and re-checked the emails themselves for anything that might be attaching to them and there is nothing. Here are the headers of the bounces:

Return-Path: <>

Received: from mwinf3204.me.freeserve.com (mwinf3204.me.freeserve.com)

by mwinb3101 (SMTP Server) with LMTP; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 02:44:18 +0100

X-Sieve: Server Sieve 2.2

Received: from cmailm3.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailm3.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.19])

by mwinf3204.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 677751800089

for <xxxxxx[at]xxxxxxxxx.fsnet.co.uk>; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 02:44:18 +0100 (CET)

Received: from exim by cmailm3.svr.pol.co.uk with local (Exim 4.14)

id 1AxG0A-0005CI-93

for xxxxxx[at]xxxxxxxxx.fsnet.co.uk; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 01:44:18 +0000

X-Failed-Recipients: submit.CNqxxxxxxxxKSMSn[at]spam.spamcop.net

From: Mail Delivery System <Mailer-Daemon[at]mailcore.pol.net.uk>

To: xxxxxx[at]xxxxxxxxx.fsnet.co.uk

Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender

Message-Id: <E1AxG0A-0005CI-93.2004-02-29-01-44-18[at]cmailm3.svr.pol.co.uk>

Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 01:44:18 +0000

Envelope-to: xxxxxx[at]xxxxxxxxxxx.fsnet.co.uk

Can anyone please tell me what is going on here?

[GreenLady]

To eliminate the obvious:

"195.92.193.19 not listed in bl.spamcop.net

Since SpamCop started counting, this system has been reported less than 10 times by less than 10 users. It has been sending mail consistently for at least 60.1 days. In the past 762.1 days, it has been listed once for a total of 9 hours

In the past week, this system has:

Been witnessed sending mail about 230 times

A sample sent sometime during the 24 hours beginning Mon, 8 Dec 2003 00:00:00 UTC:

Received: from -.-.-.-.- (-.-.-.-.- [195.92.193.19])-

by -.-.com (-.-.-.-.-) with - id -

for <-[at]-.com>- Mon, - Dec 2003 19- -

Subject: monthly newsletter on building property portfolios

From: th.. at ..n.com "

and at SORBS:

"195.92.193.19 found in Database of servers sending to spamtrap addresses

Address or Block 195.92.193.19 / 32

Description [ Submitted by: matthew ]

Entry Created Sun Oct 12 21:55:15 2003 GMT

Entry Last Seen Sun Oct 12 21:55:15 2003 GMT

spam Seen From 195.92.193.19

Currently active and flagged to be published in DNS."

However, the ability, or inability to send attachments of type .eml seems to firmly lie in the hands of the sending ISP! (Nothing about it in Freeserve's help files though...).

[Jeff G.]

Sarah,

In addition to ringing Freeserve's customer service people and asking them why they won't let you send .eml attachments, please see my post at http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/index.php?...findpost&p=2294 and the surrounding discusssion.

[GreenLady]

Sarah,

To test it, I signed up for a free freeserve account (it gave me a [at]fsmail.net address tho') and I have both been able to send and receive eMails with .eml attachments - though not submitting to spamcop.

I am baffled. This may restriction may only apply to the paid-for accounts. The only other thing I can think of is that you may actually have a virus on your system that is being detected by SpamCop or something in your message or signature that is being erroneously identified as one.

Sorry I could not help.

[Wazoo]

Sarah, from the details in both of the Topics you started, it's pretty apparent that it's freeserve that's doing the blocking. The answer you provided from them sure strikes me as a canned response, so I'd guess that your queries have yet to reach someone human. JeffG suggested placing a phone call, but you've not indicated whether you have done this or if it's even a possibility.

You say you've been testing sending mail out to other addresses, but you don't say whther the same blocking is being done on an e-mail (with an .eml attachment) you've sent from some other address to your freeserve address ..i.e., is the blocking you're finding only on outgoing e-mail, or is it blocking in both directions? (Greenlady's success sure brings up a lot of other issues <g> ...

[Spambo]

Hi, sorry if this is long but I'm just totally at the end of my tether with my ISP, UK based Freeserve.

I use OE 6 to forward spam emails as attachments to Spamcop free reporting service. [...]

[...] I do not have an account with spamcop or any other anti-spam organisation [...]

Something does not compute. Either you have an account with SpamCop or you don't.

[Sarah]

Thanks so much for the replies! To clarify, I don't know what you call the "account" I have here, I just filled in my email address and received a spamcop submit address to which I forward my spam emails. What I'm trying to say is that I don't have a spamcop email account and as far as I know my email does not pass through spamcops servers.

The canned response above from Freeserve is roughly the 15th I have received from them, all other "solutions" having been discounted. They've now sent that last one in answer to my last 3 emails - they've given up. As far as viruses are concerned, I have Grisoft AVG set to update and scan daily, as a backup I have run Trend Micro's online scan and I also have a firewall. The messages I am trying to forward have no attachment visible in either the normal view or the message source.

I have web based email accounts with Yahoo and Hotmail and have tested by sending test emails as attachments to those accounts, as well as to friends' ISP accounts. All bounced. I can however forward emails as attachments from those accounts to my Freeserve account with no problem, but I'm not sure what file extension they are using (are there more than just .eml ones?)

Greenlady mentioned that something in my message or signature may be being detected as a virus. The messages I sent as test emails contained a variety of innocent phrases but my AV does certify my outgoing mail virus free by way of a signature. I stopped it certifying but the emails still bounce. I just did a simple test by sending a completely blank email to myself (freeserve to freeserve) in plain text. It got through and I checked the message source for anything attaching and there was nothing. I then forwarded that same message as an attachment to myself at freeserve and Yahoo - both bounced. The message source of the bounce shows that again, nothing has attached itself to the message. I just don't see how this can be anyones fault but Freeserve, but I also don't understand why I seem to be the only one.

Jeff, thanks for your reply on my other thread (sorry, I couldn't find it when I started this one) I see that there are workarounds but they are very much more fiddley that just hitting a button which is why I'd like to get to the bottom of this. It also annoys me that Freeserve seem content to just blame this on Spamcop when it appears to me that you are not the problem.

My experience of Freeserve telephone support is that it is worse than useless but I will try to call them today. In the past when I have had problems I have ended up speaking to someone who sounds like a 13 year old reading from an idiot card.

[Jeff G.]

Sarah, you can also try replying to the bounce, or to the Postmaster of the machine that sent the bounce or its domain.

[Sarah]

Ok thanks, I've replied to the bounce - I'll see what happens....

[Sarah]

Well that resulted in a reply from the same "customer service" dummies I was speaking to before... I'm now on form email response #3. Exact c&p's of the previous correspondence. Guess my spam reporting days are over.

[Jeff G.]

Another workaround is to use a different SMTP Server, even if it's hosted by another provider.

[Sarah]

I'm a bit technologically challenged - how would I go about doing that?

[turetzsr]

Hi, Sarah!

I'm a bit technologically challenged - how would I go about doing that?

...http://mail.yahoo.com/ is one possibility.

[Miss Betsy]

I am technically non-fluent also. However, you can use Outlook Express to download email from hotmail. If you do that, you can choose whether to use your email account or hotmail to send messages.

I don't know whether it would work or not, but you could try forwarding your spam with your hotmail account.

Miss Betsy

[Sarah]

Oh ok, thanks - think I'll try that in the morning then - 3.00am combined with my complete lack of know-how will get me in trouble otherwise....

[WB8TYW]

There is a common misconception that you must forward your spam to your submission as an attachment.

That is not so. It is just the easiest way for some e-mail programs to forward the spam intact with headers.

You can also forward the spam inline with out quoting, and the spamcop parser will accept it.

"Quoting" is when your e-mail program prefixes every line with a ">" character.

You mentioned that you were running something named Outlook Express. There might be someone else on this forum that uses that same program that can list the exact steps needed for your e-mail program to do this.

One way of doing it is to compose a new message to your reporting address, and then use the "view source" or equivalent on the spam. Select all the spam and paste it with out quoting in the new message.

You can submit that and see how the parser accepts it. Then you will also see what to expect when you get the incantations needed for your e-mail program to forward spam in that way.

Of course you can also paste that spam into the web form, which is the method that I use.

-John

Personal Opinion Only

[Ellen]

Just sort of tacking onto the the thread -- we have been working with freeserve and I think we have finally gotten things so that the freeserve server won't be listed anymore -- well we thought this about 3 days ago but we keep squishing little baby bugs but right now things look pretty good ...

Of course I just now reread the thread and it doesn't seem to be about freeserve server(s) being listed at all ... oh well, never mind then

[Wazoo]

I just now reread the thread and it doesn't seem to be about freeserve server(s) being listed at all

well, that you're taking care of yet another Freeserve issue is appreciated by somebody, even if not noticed <g> It may in fact be somewhat associated with the orignal post, as it did seem to start out with a SpamCop / Freeserve

(dis)connection, but then it got down to file extensions (maybe?) ...

[gtforum]

To Sarah (sorry about the long delay, but I had to find out how to post here.):

Some alternatives to get around the ISP block.

1) Use OE to read a hotmail account - then use OE to sent the spam as an

attachment via that hotmail account. (The OE mail form allows various "from"

addresses, including the hotmail account.)

2) Display the source of the spam, save as a text file (.txt extension) and

f-a-a that from your ISP account (no .eml extension.)

3) If you want to save as a .txt file in hotmail, right click on the spam,

click on copy shortcut, paste that address into the address box and click on

go. The next screen looks like the "source" above and can be saved as a .txt

file. This can then be forwarded as an attachment as in 2) above.

In 1) above, I think that yahoo.com and others are available the same way.

I think from the further posts here and in .help, you already have resolved the problem. Just posting this here in case you did not see it in .help .

--

A SpamCop user and forum reader,

Not Admin

***

[Wazoo]

gtforum - I don't think that Sarah has any knowledge of the .help newsgroup. To my recollection, someone here reposted her query over there for some reason. There hasn't been a lot of follow up here, as the HotMail/Yahoo suggestions had already been made several times, and her last post back on March 1 stated she was going to "try it" in the morning ... but she hasn't been back since ... so no one here can tell if it worked or she just gave up ...

[Jeff G.]

Another workaround is to use a different SMTP Server, even if it's hosted by another provider.

I'm a bit technologically challenged - how would I go about doing that?

Please see Jeff G.'s Hotspot SMTP-Auth Provider Status Report.