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SpamCop is ruining my business!


seanman
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I have been on SpamCop's "list" for 2 weeks now. I do NOT send junk emails, I do NOT use an auto-responder, and I have tried to get help from SpamCop but I am still listed. My business uses email extensively to communicate with clients. I am not able to respond to them because of being on a STUPID LIST with SpamCop!!! At some point, there has to be liability on SpamCop's part for blocking my ability to use email!!! Does anyone know how to begin a formal complaint or lawsuit against SpamCop for what they are doing to my business? What they hve done is no different than if they had come to my home and ripped all my phones out of the wall!!

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If you had provided the IP address you believe is listed with spamcop, we could have provided you a lot more information about why you are listed (samples of spam coming from your IP address, notes if spam is still coming from it, notes if spamtraps (addresses never signed up for anything) have been hit, etc.) Without that information I can simply ask that you look through the FAQ here, specifically the topic: Why am I blocked?

The fact you have been on the list for 2 weeks leads me to believe that some machine behind the IP address continues to send spam onto the internet. SpamCop listings expire after the spam reports stop coming in.

Unless your ISP has a goofy setup (blocking outgoing messages that are blocked by spamcop) then only a percentage of your messages will not be getting through, those people who have decided they do not want any messages from servers that send spam. They are using the spamcop list to determine who they do not want to receive email from. It is their choice to not receive your emails, as it should be.

Also, since this post has nothing to do with how to use the spamcop forum software, it will be moved to the SpamCop Blocklist Help forum.

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Thanks Steve for all your concern. I sent my IP address to you so hopefully an actual human being can help get my business back in order!

I assure you I have NOT been blocked by my clients so that is just a pompus statement on your part. I have been running my business for 19 years and never had a problem with emails until SpamCop showed up. I am currently forced to send my emails to my VP of Operations who in turn runs them through G-mail to get thm to the clients.

I would expect to hear from you very soon regarding what is causing the issue with your program and my emails.

It's very sad that I have to resort to a forum to try and get a resolution in this matter! Maybe my next business should be SpamCop Cops! We could police the policies and procedures of SpamCop and block the inappropriate blocks! Oh, What fun this is!!!

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I have been on SpamCop's "list" for 2 weeks now.
No, you haven't. SpamCop doesn't list email addresses, people, companies or domains.

The SpamCop list contains only mail server IP addresses.

If you want to send me a copy of the rejection notice you get when you send mail to your clients who use our service, maybe I can help. I need the IP address of the server.

When the spam stops flowing from that IP, it will automatically go off our list 24 hours later.

You can email me directly at service[at]admin.spamcop.net

- Don D'Minion - SpamCop Admin -

.

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IP received off-line... I do not reply to support issues off-line so am posting here with clean information to respect your wishes. It will require a lot more work on your end and limit the conversation, but that is your choice. Yes, I do think you should post your IP address in this forum... it is a public IP anyway and publiched in DNS. The IP of my work system is: 12.30.28.8. I use spamcop's mail servers and those IP's can be readily found as well. My home IP address is 68.116.173.51 , but I also know that is protected from most (never say all) outside attacks by my firewall.

With all due respect, SpamCop has no possible way to block your messages. Your mail server would be sending the message directly to their mail server. It is that mail server configured to reject the message using spamcop's list. Your recipient or their mail administrator, has made that decision.

Go to: http://www.spamcop.net/w3m?action=blcheck and enter the first IP you provided and you will see:

If there are no reports of ongoing objectionable email from this system it will be delisted automatically in approximately 21 hours.

Causes of listing

System has sent mail to SpamCop spam traps in the past week (spam traps are secret, no reports or evidence are provided by SpamCop)

It appears this listing is caused by misdirected bounces. We have a FAQ which covers this topic: Why auto-responses are bad (Misdirected bounces). Please read this FAQ and heed the advice contained in it.

Additional potential problems

(these factors do not directly result in spamcop listing)

System administrator has already delisted this system once

Because of the above problems, express-delisting is not available

Listing History

System has been listed for 5.7 days.

The other IP you cite has reports, but is not currently listed. Neither of these has any manual reports showing, so likely the same issue. It is likely spamcop's spamtrap addresses have gotten forged as the sender of some spam and your system is using that forged information to hit the spamtrap. Follow the links on the above listed page to find out how to fix this (if you run your own email server).

You do not appear to be sending plain spam onto the internet, which is a good thing. You are however, passing some that your server does receive onto innocent third parties whose only sim was to have their address forged as the sender. Fix the misdirected bounces and your problem will be fixed after the waiting time. Had the problems been fixed before the express delisting were tried, the listing would have expired quickly.

By the way, I thought your response post was uncaring and rather rude. I guess I should have expected nothing less. No one cares about what this does to my business.
I am simply a user of SpamCop's services... I do not get paid for my work here except to help people. Right now, with the evidence presented above, it appears your system is causing innocent third parties to receive unwanted and unneeded messages. Have you ever received a whole bunch of bounces for messages you dd not send? Those were directed to you because of a server setup as yours is. You are correct, I don't care about your business one way or another. I am trying to help you clean up your part of the internet, but without specific data (the IP address) it is very difficult to do so.
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I assure you I have NOT been blocked by my clients so that is just a pompus statement on your part.

Actually, the statement is simply fact. SpamCop is NOT blocking your messages. Any blocking would be happening at the receiving end, which is surely happening at the servers designated to receive email for your clients. The "pompous" claim is insulting and inappropriate. You showed up with a HUGE chip on your shoulder, posted in the WRONG forum, didn't bother to read the FAQ and you're throwing around insults. You're being a jerk.

I have been running my business for 19 years and never had a problem with emails until SpamCop showed up.

This indicates that the problem on your server is relatively recent. Whomever is responsible for that server is the one who you should be frustrated with, because it's mostly likely developed some sort of security problem. Most people who want help here will provide the IP address of their server so that we can offer assistance. I see that you plan on sending it to Steven, but now that Don (the SC Admin) has responded, send him an email message using the method you use to contact your clients and he will be able to help you.

DT

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I do have a huge chip on my shoulder because I have spent a lot of time trying to resolve this issue. I have spoken with my IP provider and they responded that this was fixed. I am doing twice the amount of work to get things accomplished.

The failure notices show SpamCop as the reason for the rejected emails so that is why I came to you. I have read te FAQS several times and did not see where any of those would have applied to my emails (if you note in my first post I mentioned I do not use an auto-responder which was one of the reasons your FAQS say I would be listed).

I looked everywhere to find a way to speak to a human being from SpamCop but that did not seem possible. I posted (yes, to the WRONG forum!) in an attempt to get resolution to this issue.

Between all of your little attacks to my posts I have been able to weed out some potentially useful information. I don't want to be going through this, I do not make any money by posting these messages (as am sure all of you do) and I jut want to be rid of SpamCop forever!

By the way, if you ever want to train your staff on customer service and de-escalation of the "problem" customer, give me a call as this is what my company does.

Thanks for calling me a jerk, just what I wanted to hear. I hope a lot of potential clients read this post. I know I am keeping a copy. It is pompus for you to make a statement that my clients have rejected my emails; you infer that my customers do not want to hear from me and that is just not true.

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I am currently on the phone with my IP provider who is stating that someone has taken my email and used it to send spam. Even though it is not coming from my IP address they have made it "appear" it is. They said your system is not sophisticated enough to tell that the spam is not coming from my IP address; therefore you just treat ME like the criminal instead of the victim. This means I am victimized twice; once by the spam sender and then again by you.

Can you please give me the city and state your company operates from so I may contact the BBB.

Thanks

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I am currently on the phone with my IP provider who is stating that someone has taken my email and used it to send spam. Even though it is not coming from my IP address they have made it "appear" it is. They said your system is not sophisticated enough to tell that the spam is not coming from my IP address; therefore you just treat ME like the criminal instead of the victim. This means I am victimized twice; once by the spam sender and then again by you.

No offense, but your "IP provider" clearly doesn't have a clue. The SpamCop parser looks at the originating IP address to determine the source of a message, it has not interest in the ususually forged FROM address. You provider seems to be using the terms "email address" and "IP address" interchangably. These two things are not even close to the same thing. Email addresses can be easily forged, and usually are, which is why SpamCop ignores them completely. On the other hand, it is generally not technically feasible to forge IP addresses in the context of sending emails, and on the rare occassion it is attempted, it is generally a trivial matter to detect the forgery.

As stated above, your most likely problem is with misdirected bounces. This is a mail server configuration issue. Essentially, a spammer sends a message to your mail server with a forged from address. Instead of rejecting the message outright, which would simply send an error code back to the connected sending server, your server is accepting the message, and then generating a bounce to the phoney from address later. This means that a completely uninvolved 3rd party is getting all these bounce messages. This can potentially be hundreds or even thousands of misdirected bounces, depending on how many messages the spammer sent with their address forged on it, and how many poorly configured mail servers it hits. This is a problem with your mail server and needs fixed.

As far as the actual blocking of your email, this can only be accomplished at the receiving end, as your mail never passes through any assets owned by SpamCop. Some of your customers probably use the SpamCop list to reject potential spam email, as do many mail administrators because of the effectiveness of the list in quickly adding problem servers and removing listings when problems stop. Your SpamCop listing will automatically expire when the problem is fixes, but we (TINW) can't fix it from here, you are going to have to get your mail server admin to fix the configuration issues on your end.

It seems to me that if you have been in business for 19 years and are that reliant on email, which BTW is not, has not been, and probably will never be a guaranteed method of delivery, it would behoove you to become a little more familiar with just how the email system operates.

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I am currently on the phone with my IP provider who is stating that someone has taken my email and used it to send spam. Even though it is not coming from my IP address they have made it "appear" it is. They said your system is not sophisticated enough to tell that the spam is not coming from my IP address...

BZZZZZZZZZZZT....Wrong! Thanks for playing.

Did you bother to send an email to the SpamCop Admin, as requested? Really, I don't know why we're bothering to give you the time of day, given your absolutely over-the-top rants, and yet here we are, trying to help you in spite of yourself. Get a grip.

DT

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I am currently on the phone with my IP provider who is stating that someone has taken my email and used it to send spam. Even though it is not coming from my IP address they have made it "appear" it is. They said your system is not sophisticated enough to tell that the spam is not coming from my IP address;
Your ISP doesn't know what they're talking about.

The "From" address on spam is almost universally either fake or forged. SpamCop has ignored the email addresses in spam for the last ten years.

Our focus is entirely on the source IP (origin point) of the spam.

if you ever want to train your staff on customer service
You may have missed the part about these forums being *user support* forums. They are owned and operated by SpamCop users. The SpamCop staff has no control here whatsoever.

I am the SpamCop Administrator. I have given you my email address and asked for a copy of the rejection notice you get when you try to send mail to certain clients. I need the IP address of your mail server.

You get no sympathy if you don't write to me so I can help you.

- Don D'Minion - SpamCop Admin -

service[at]admin.spamcop.net

http://www.spamcop.net/

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The failure notices show SpamCop as the reason for the rejected emails so that is why I came to you.

Many ISPs and server admins have been known to put out bogus rejection reasons in their NDRs, including using SpamCop as an excuse, but let's assume that those were actually accurate.

I do not use an auto-responder

Good, but the server from which your emails originate might be guilty of "backscatter," which are non-delivery report messages sent "after the fact." I'm guessing that you're not a server administrator or directly in control of the server. Are you using the SMTP services of your local broadband provider? There are too many things you haven't shared with us, so that makes it next to impossible to help you.

I jut want to be rid of SpamCop forever!

I'd say that the feeling is mutual. :rolleyes:

Thanks for calling me a jerk, just what I wanted to hear.

You're very welcome. :D

you infer that my customers do not want to hear from me and that is just not true.

My crap detector is sounding a loud alarm. That's not what anyone is saying. We're saying that there's apparently a bunch of unwanted junk spewing out of the IP address used to relay your outbound messages, and that there's obviously a problem that needs to be fixed. It has nothing to do with messages you're trying to send out.

DT

Edited by DavidT
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No offense, but your "IP provider" clearly doesn't have a clue. The SpamCop parser looks at the originating IP address to determine the source of a message, it has not interest in the ususually forged FROM address. You provider seems to be using the terms "email address" and "IP address" interchangably. These two things are not even close to the same thing. Email addresses can be easily forged, and usually are, which is why SpamCop ignores them completely. On the other hand, it is generally not technically feasible to forge IP addresses in the context of sending emails, and on the rare occassion it is attempted, it is generally a trivial matter to detect the forgery.

As stated above, your most likely problem is with misdirected bounces. This is a mail server configuration issue. Essentially, a spammer sends a message to your mail server with a forged from address. Instead of rejecting the message outright, which would simply send an error code back to the connected sending server, your server is accepting the message, and then generating a bounce to the phoney from address later. This means that a completely uninvolved 3rd party is getting all these bounce messages. This can potentially be hundreds or even thousands of misdirected bounces, depending on how many messages the spammer sent with their address forged on it, and how many poorly configured mail servers it hits. This is a problem with your mail server and needs fixed.

As far as the actual blocking of your email, this can only be accomplished at the receiving end, as your mail never passes through any assets owned by SpamCop. Some of your customers probably use the SpamCop list to reject potential spam email, as do many mail administrators because of the effectiveness of the list in quickly adding problem servers and removing listings when problems stop. Your SpamCop listing will automatically expire when the problem is fixes, but we (TINW) can't fix it from here, you are going to have to get your mail server admin to fix the configuration issues on your end.

It seems to me that if you have been in business for 19 years and are that reliant on email, which BTW is not, has not been, and probably will never be a guaranteed method of delivery, it would behoove you to become a little more familiar with just how the email system operates.

I agree I need to become more familiar with email. I might also want to take some classes on how to construct buildings just in case someone comes along and blows up my office instead of just my email. I have taken email for granted in the fact that it has always been a reliable method of communication and is especially convenient since some of my clients are in diferent time zones. I will pass your comments about my IP provider along to them.

I guess I'll always be confused when I get this message:

Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mail.simplenet.com.

I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.

This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

<#####.#####[at]###.com>:

Connected to 64.217.170.11 but sender was rejected.

Remote host said: 550 5.7.1 Rejected: 209.132.4.31 listed at bl.spamcop.net

<#######.######[at].com>:

Connected to 64.217.170.11 but sender was rejected.

Remote host said: 550 5.7.1 Rejected: 209.132.4.31 listed at bl.spamcop.net

and yet SpamCop keeps telling me they have nothing to do with it.

Again, can someone give me the city and state where SpamCop is incorporated?

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<snip>my clients have rejected my emails; you infer that my customers do not want to hear from me and that is just not true.<snip>

I think the problem here is a matter of terminology.

You may be correct, your clients did not decide 'Lets block all of seanman's email.' What they, or their email server adm, did decide was to use the SpamCop Black List (SCBL) to filter incoming email and to reject all email that comes from IP addresses on the SCBL. As an unintended result of these decisions when your IP addresses appeared on the SCBL your email started to be rejected.

Your email server adm made decisions about how to handle rejection messages. These decisions have had the unintended result of misdirecting bounces to SpamCop spam traps and getting you IP on the SCBL.

I do have a huge chip on my shoulder <snip>

By the way, if you ever want to train your staff on customer service and de-escalation of the "problem" customer, give me a call as this is what my company does.

Thanks for calling me a jerk, just what I wanted to hear. I hope a lot of potential clients read this post. I know I am keeping a copy. It is pompus for you to make a statement that my clients have rejected my emails; you infer that my customers do not want to hear from me and that is just not true.

I agree this sequence of postings would make an interesting case study in a conflict resolution seminar. What it illustrates may be in question.

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Your ISP doesn't know what they're talking about.

The "From" address on spam is almost universally either fake or forged. SpamCop has ignored the email addresses in spam for the last ten years.

Our focus is entirely on the source IP (origin point) of the spam.

You may have missed the part about these forums being *user support* forums. They are owned and operated by SpamCop users. The SpamCop staff has no control here whatsoever.

I am the SpamCop Administrator. I have given you my email address and asked for a copy of the rejection notice you get when you try to send mail to certain clients. I need the IP address of your mail server.

You get no sympathy if you don't write to me so I can help you.

- Don D'Minion - SpamCop Admin -

service[at]admin.spamcop.net

http://www.spamcop.net/

I did send this to you. What is with this board; I am trying toget answers and you just keep criticizing and scowling; please gie me another avenue to speak with a SpamCop representative other than having anyone and everyone respond towhat they think of my posts. Do people really have nothing better to do with their days than rip other people apart. I need to get this fixed; if there is nothing you can or will do then just say that so I can look somewhere else for the answer. I have already contacted my provider and they are checking into the situation (again). I will contact my clients and see if they have some restriction for my emails. You can all go play with someone else's posts now; I have much better things to do.

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Connected to 64.217.170.11 but sender was rejected. Remote host said: 550 5.7.1 Rejected: 209.132.4.31 listed at bl.spamcop.net

Now that's actually useful. I think that the point of transmission is indeed your web-hosting provider, SimpleNet.com. Unless you're leasing a dedicated server from them, it's possible that many other hosting customers are sharing a single outbound IP with you. Whether that's true or not, there are very few "manual" SpamCop reports (but I did find some) about traffic originating from that IP, which is good. However, there were some that look like after-the-fact bounces (NDRs, aka "backscatter"), which is bad:

Submitted: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 4:17:25 AM -0700:

failure notice

* 3349914138 ( 209.132.4.31 ) To: abuse#simplenet.com[at]devnull.spamcop.net

* 3349914137 ( 209.132.4.31 ) To: level3[at]admin.spamcop.net

Submitted: Sunday, August 03, 2008 6:25:13 AM -0700:

failure notice

* 3340690224 ( 209.132.4.31 ) To: abuse#simplenet.com[at]devnull.spamcop.net

* 3340690223 ( 209.132.4.31 ) To: level3[at]admin.spamcop.net

Submitted: Monday, June 16, 2008 4:04:57 AM -0700:

failure notice

* 3200214795 ( 209.132.4.31 ) To: level3[at]admin.spamcop.net

* 3200214794 ( 209.132.4.31 ) To: abuse#simplenet.com[at]devnull.spamcop.net

In addition, SimpleNet is apparently refusing to receive SpamCop reports, which is not a wise decision on their part:

ISP does not wish to receive report regarding 209.132.4.31

As mentioned earlier, email traffic from that IP is hitting "spam trap" addresses, which are email addresses that should NEVER receive any messages, by definition, so the problem is most decidedly located at the server, and it's up to SimpleNet to fix the problem, period.

and yet SpamCop keeps telling me they have nothing to do with it.

No...you misunderstand. SpamCop isn't actively blocking any of your messages, but the SpamCop Blocking List is indeed involved, in that it's being used by third parties to block spam, and your messages are the "collateral damage."

DT

[on edit] "seanman" has left the building, but only after reading all these messages...which should have provided him with plenty of helpful information, despite his cartooney threats, etc.

Edited by DavidT
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Now that's actually useful. I think that the point of transmission is indeed your web-hosting provider, SimpleNet.com. Unless you're leasing a dedicated server from them, it's possible that many other hosting customers are sharing a single outbound IP with you. Whether that's true or not, there are very few "manual" SpamCop reports (but I did find some) about traffic originating from that IP, which is good. However, there were some that look like after-the-fact bounces (NDRs, aka "backscatter"), which is bad:

Submitted: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 4:17:25 AM -0700:

failure notice

* 3349914138 ( 209.132.4.31 ) To: abuse#simplenet.com[at]devnull.spamcop.net

* 3349914137 ( 209.132.4.31 ) To: level3[at]admin.spamcop.net

Submitted: Sunday, August 03, 2008 6:25:13 AM -0700:

failure notice

* 3340690224 ( 209.132.4.31 ) To: abuse#simplenet.com[at]devnull.spamcop.net

* 3340690223 ( 209.132.4.31 ) To: level3[at]admin.spamcop.net

Submitted: Monday, June 16, 2008 4:04:57 AM -0700:

failure notice

* 3200214795 ( 209.132.4.31 ) To: level3[at]admin.spamcop.net

* 3200214794 ( 209.132.4.31 ) To: abuse#simplenet.com[at]devnull.spamcop.net

In addition, SimpleNet is apparently refusing to receive SpamCop reports, which is not a wise decision on their part:

As mentioned earlier, email traffic from that IP is hitting "spam trap" addresses, which are email addresses that should NEVER receive any messages, by definition, so the problem is most decidedly located at the server, and it's up to SimpleNet to fix the problem, period.

No...you misunderstand. SpamCop isn't actively blocking any of your messages, but the SpamCop Blocking List is indeed involved, in that it's being used by third parties to block spam, and your messages are the "collateral damage."

DT

[on edit] "seanman" has left the building, but only after reading all these messages...which should have provided him with plenty of helpful information, despite his cartooney threats, etc.

Do comments like that really make you feel good? I'm guessing you're seven, maybe eight years old....

I can gather the rest of the needed information without reading these playground comments.

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Do comments like that really make you feel good?

Comments like what? My, my, what a thin skin we have Mr. "seanman." I'd suggest you quickly turn off your computer, lest you see anything that further offends your sensitivities. You were acting like a jerk, and so I called you on it. If you're referring to my reference to "cartooney threats," that's standard anti-spammer jargon, not any sort of "playground" insult...and the shoe fits....extremely well. :P

Now just chill out and realize that all of us here have actually been trying to help you, despite your particularly bad behavior. We have provided you with the correct information, as opposed to the incorrect, misleading information that your provider might be feeding you.

DT

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I just answered email from someone asking about 209.132.4.31 = mail1.hs.sntoo.net

I wasn't able to connect the email to this thread. If it was seanman who wrote, then he (she?) now has all the info he needs to get the problem fixed. If it wasn't seanman, then I will happily answer him if he chooses to contact me.

The problem is autoresponder traffic from 209.132.4.31 hitting our traps.

I removed the server from our list as a measure of temporary relief, but it will go right back on the list as soon as another email hits our traps.

- Don D'Minion - SpamCop Admin -

.

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I just answered email from someone asking about 209.132.4.31 = mail1.hs.sntoo.net

I wasn't able to connect the email to this thread. If it was seanman who wrote, then he (she?) now has all the info he needs to get the problem fixed. If it wasn't seanman, then I will happily answer him if he chooses to contact me.

The problem is autoresponder traffic from 209.132.4.31 hitting our traps.

I removed the server from our list as a measure of temporary relief, but it will go right back on the list as soon as another email hits our traps.

It was me and I sent the information along to Simplenet. They are going to migrate my websites to another system which should (may) help with this problem. I finally got the information I needed from you to hopefully fix the issue. I am not a spammer but I have been caught up in a "machine" because of someone else's actions. In my wonderful day I have learned that anyone can "steal" my email address or "abuse" the same IP address that I use which results in not only the offender being tagged but all the innocent people right along with them. It is then up to the legitimate ones to go through the nightmare I have. Even after doing this, it looks like nothing will be resolved when someone else uses an autoresponder. I guess what I don't understand is how I can be caught up in this mess when SpamCop knows the actual address that caused the issue but chose to block everyone. I took the information given me and looked at the website of this individual. It is a site discussing a murder case and evidence; not what I thought I would see from a dirty rotten scammer; so perhaps a bunch of people got caught up in SpamCop's system who never should have been there.

I honestly do not know how your system works and didn't even know you existed until you came crashing into my life. I am a good person with a tremendous amount of frustration because I cannot contact my customers. I have been the "victim" whether the criminal was a spammer or SpamCop (or a little of both). I have looked at several articles about SpamCop since that has been the reasn for my non-productive morning and I can see that my frustration is certainly felt by others. You are a relatively young company trying to police the internet for criminals. Now you just need to learn how to make only bad people suffer instead of anyone who comes your way.

Most companies would not be able to indiscriminately wreak havoc on people's lives like you do. As a matter of fact, companies who have done this in the past have been successfully sued because of negligent actions. I am not being rude, just stating a fact. There has to be a check and balance in place; otherwise you can just keep doing what you do to anyone you choose; that's not good for anyone.

What a sad world we live in. I am truely disappointed in what we have become. What SpamCop does is wrong for people like me. I just hope that you evolve and change the way you do things so others don't have the issues that I have endured.

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Again, a bit of a lack of understanding seems to be apparent here.

From what we have seen, you are using a shared outgoing mail server. SpamCop detects spam from that server, and adds it to their list. This a single mail server with a single IP address, that is as fine a granularity as a blocklist can possibly have, so I'm not sure how you expect them to list half a server.

How to avoid this in the future? Well, lots of ways actually:

1) Run your own mail server, where you have complete control over it, and hire a competent mail server admin to administer it for you.

2) Find an ISP that is proactive about dealing with spam problems. The fact that your ISP has intentionally disabled SpamCop reports means that they would not have gotten any kind of early warning that there was a problem developing on their server. Had they been receiving reports, they would have known about the problem immediately, and it could have been dealt with, potentially before it led to a listing in the SCBL.

3) Find an ISP that will lease you a dedicated mail server. This way you don't have to worry about what other customers of the ISP are sending through the same server.

Oh, and as far as lawsuits go, you are welcome to contact a lawyer, but every time someone has sued a blocklist provider, and the blocklist provider has put up a defense, the plaintiff has consistently lost. Why? Because the blocklist provider is doing nothing more than provide a list of IP addresses that meet certain criteria. What a mail server admin does with that information is entirely up to them. Some use it as part of a spam scoring system, others block email outright. Their server, their rules, noone is obligated to accept email from anyone on the internet if they don't want to.

Edited by Telarin
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Again, a bit of a lack of understanding seems to be apparent here.

Will, perhaps there is a "lack of understanding" as I am not an IT specialist like you. I looked at some other posts and I did see that you actually give useful information instead of just beating up on people who need help; thanks for your suggestions, they have been noted and I will follow up on your advise.

My issue is with accountability. SpamCop can point the finger at someone else but when it gets right down to it: they were the ones who blocked my emails and there is no easy way to get off the list. If they choose to knock everyone out of their right to use email, and do not provide an easy solution (trust me, no part of this has been easy), then they do become a huge part if not the underlying source of the problem.

Again, thanks for your advice; I really do appreciate it!

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My issue is with accountability. SpamCop can point the finger at someone else but when it gets right down to it: they were the ones who blocked my emails and there is no easy way to get off the list. If they choose to knock everyone out of their right to use email, and do not provide an easy solution (trust me, no part of this has been easy), then they do become a huge part if not the underlying source of the problem.

Explain to me how spamcop, who does not own any servers between you and your intended recipient, could possibly block your email? All they do is provide mail administrators with a list of IP addresses that have been seen recently sending a high volume of spam. The key here is "Recently". If an IP address stops sending spam, it automatically comes off the list, simple as that.

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Will, perhaps there is a "lack of understanding" as I am not an IT specialist like you. <snip>

My issue is with accountability. SpamCop can point the finger at someone else but when it gets right down to it: they were the ones who blocked my emails and there is no easy way to get off the list. If they choose to knock everyone out of their right to use email, and do not provide an easy solution (trust me, no part of this has been easy), then they do become a huge part if not the underlying source of the problem. Again, thanks for your advice; I really do appreciate it!

There is still a 'lack of understanding' I am afraid. The control of spam is not easy. Estimates are that up to 90% of all email is spam. Server admins have to use all kinds of filters to keep spam from entering their customers' mail boxes. Actually, blocking at the server level is the best kind of filter because if there is a server with legitimate email also coming from it (as in your case), then the legitimate emailer gets a heads up that something is wrong at their end. The only way to stop spam is at the *sending* end.

I am glad that you got some good advice on how to fix your problem. If more people on the *sending* end of a server that is sending spam were willing as you are to fix the problem, then perhaps the whole problem would get easier for everyone.

Miss Betsy

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