Wazoo Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 JT tossed out a but of a suggestion and a question. Let's start with the product, described in all its glory at http://www.pineappletechnologies.com/products/lore/ .... I don't want to be the guy that said something like "it's a miracle! .. blow the bucks!" and have it not used. A bit of historical here .... the FAQ on the www-spamcop.net site has always been something to complain about .. some folks find in lacking in detail, others finding difficult to navigate and actually find anything, others not knowing that it exists .... Then came the Forum structure ... that caused a bit of a stir because NNTP newsgroup folks hated the thought of a web-based application getting in the way. (There's actually but a handful of "us" that frequent both the newsgroups and the Forum, so there really are two camps involved.) Never mind that part of the logic behind the web-based thing was based on it being the primary support area for the e-mail account folks that would already be accessing their e-mail via a web browser, so for a lot of folks, no problem. Most newer computer/internet users have no knowledge of the NNTP side of things, so less confusion there. Some work places have NNTP firewalled off, so the Forum offers a place that they can still post to and get answers. There came a day that I started gluing things together in the Forum that resulted in the current single page access point that includes both the top structure of the www.spamcop.net FAQ and much additional data developed within this Forum. Some folks love it. Some folks hate it. I just saw a post this morning that some folks can't find it (????) As recent as last week, there was a bit of a discussion over in the newsgroup area that talked about the division between the two camps and a couple of suggestions made that no one within the newsgroups should provide links to or point folks to this Forum area, as it was detracting from the support offered within the newsgroups. Even the two versions of the FAQ came under fire, even though pointed out that I don't have access to the spamcop.net pages and the Forum FAQ includes data developed from within .... someone had even mentioned at the "need" for the FAQ to be published on a periodic basis as a newsgroup posting (though noting that even though this suggestion has been made by many people over the years, there has been no one stepping up to the plate and writing it, much less posting it on a weekly/monthly basis) So now, JT's made the offer of purchasing some more software and putting it up so that there'd be something that could be much better for all .... can I ask any and all of you to take a look and offer up a yeah or a nay on building a new FAQ using that tool? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Hey, Wazoo. The FAQ in question is on the "New FAQ" forum, but it is not in the FAQs linked to by the Help option on spamcop.net. It also doesn't show up when you search "Spamcop and FAQ" from the same page. Finally, it didn't show up when I searched the forums because I was only searching the reporting help forum, and it's not pinned to the top of the reporting help forum. I didn't look in the FAQ forum originally, because the question did not concern updating or improving the existing FAQs. I did find the relevant FAQ eventually, but I got to admit it wasn't easy. Obviously this could be corrected without purchasing a commercial tool, but I guess it's all a question of allocating resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenUnderwood Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I must preface these comments by saying I have rarely had a problem finding what I needed from the FAQ, but since I am in the computer industry, my searching techniques have been fine tuned over the years. I have also paid close attention to how this thing works (or doesn't) and adjust my expectations as such. I know that others do have problems navigating the information as we have seen often. On a quick look through, my major question is how easy is it to add new categories and/or articles? Article Features Visitors can add their own comments to your articles Article ratings Article attachments Printer-friendly articles Email article feature Related articles I see that comments can be made to existing articles, but is it going to take one person or persons to be maintaining this new software (another moderator like position) and setting this up originally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I think the FAQ you have put together is great and can be searched easily. I do not think more software will help any and just cause more confusion. Not saying anything about anyone here but I find many people do not like to search and read through many pages but just want a quick answer that they don't have to search for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 Hey, Wazoo. The FAQ in question is on the "New FAQ" forum, ......... I didn't look in the FAQ forum originally, because the question did not concern updating or improving the existing FAQs. You don't need to go into that Forum, and the description attempted to make it clear that any "work" done there would be towards adding/improving the FAQ / documentation. I created that specific Forum as more of a place-holder for the FAQ entries ... hidden within the other Forum structure parts, they were aging off past the default 30-day display list selection, so to edit any of those items took a half-dozen mouse clicks to get there .. that was basically for me and anyone else that wanted to join in. For the rest of the world, entry to the FAQ contents would normally be via the link you say doesn't exist .. the Pinned entry in almost all of the Forum sections .. pointed at directly in another comment below .... but it is not in the FAQs linked to by the Help option on spamcop.net. It also doesn't show up when you search "Spamcop and FAQ" from the same page. That is what my previous commentary was about ... there's the www.spamcop.net FAQ and there's the Forum FAQ that includes the contents of the www.spamcop.net FAQ. As was pointed out, I have no access or control over the www.spamcop.net FAQ beyond sending in my requests/suggestions (just like anyone else) .... the Forum FAQ is something I took upon myself to create, and even at that time pointing out that it wasn't an end goal, just an alternative. Recently, JT made a decision and gave me access to this application. and I've been working in some changes. Yesterday came a change to the paid-version that was also a multi-level revision level in the code-base. To explain it another way, I am not a paid employee .. I don't work for anyone ... JT and I have never talked other than e-mail .. I have no idea where he got the crazy idea to give me this much access to his system <g> So this question delves down to whether or not another version of a FAQ should be attempted, and take that with the end goal being that this would end up being the one and only FAQ .....???? Finally, it didn't show up when I searched the forums because I was only searching the reporting help forum, and it's not pinned to the top of the reporting help forum. I'm not sure what you might mean by "search the forums" so I can't really talk to that. As far as "not Pinned to the top of the reporting help Forum" .. please take another look and note the item titled: Pinned: Original SpamCop FAQ Plus - Read before Posting FAQ = Frequently Asked Questions I did find the relevant FAQ eventually, but I got to admit it wasn't easy. Obviously this could be corrected without purchasing a commercial tool, but I guess it's all a question of allocating resources. I'm still stuck on you stating that the Pinned items aren't there, but they exist on my screen ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 I must preface these comments by saying I have rarely had a problem finding what I needed from the FAQ, but since I am in the computer industry, my searching techniques have been fine tuned over the years. I have also paid close attention to how this thing works (or doesn't) and adjust my expectations as such. I know that others do have problems navigating the information as we have seen often. And to that, I'll be the first (ok, maybe the hundredth) to say that there are failings in that attempted single-source post. To say that I'm behind on stuff that I know should be there, stuff I'd like to exist, etc., etc., etc. would be putting it gently <g> But it also seems like the thrill of it all has slipped away also ... there once was a number of people adding stuff to put in there, but that has slowed down immensely. (yet again, I'll take the hit for some of that also by not grabbing some posts that should be incorporated and getting that done .. I admit it.) On a quick look through, my major question is how easy is it to add new categories and/or articles? I see that comments can be made to existing articles, but is it going to take one person or persons to be maintaining this new software (another moderator like position) and setting this up originally? Was late last nite / wee hours this morning I looked at it ... have been out with some relatives most of the day, so this is off the top of my head right now .. what I recall is basically setting up a person or two to 'run' the thing. Put the major part of it together. We'll say you get tagged as the e-mail account guy ... you start building the thing .. place a FAQ entry ... anyone can come long and 'comment' on that entry. ... make it your call as to what to do with those comments, add them, debate them, delete them, let the post stand as is .... the other answer is that it could be left to one or a number of folks, either specializing in one or more sections .... off for some coffee .. wondering if anything I've typed in the last half-hour helps <g> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 I think the FAQ you have put together is great and can be searched easily. As said in another response, this Forum FAQ isn't anything to be proud of <g> ... it was just something scratched together that one afternoon and built upon ever since. The search part would work better if the entire FAQ was really in one place .. going back to the inclusion of the www.spamcop.net FAQ contents that only went down one or two levels of the page titles for instance .... (but even that has turned into a headache with FAQs being changed "over there" with no notification being posted anywhere ... [reminding me that I still haven't fixed the first major FAQ entry 'here' which now points to a deleted link 'there'] ... so I've been trying to make sure that nothing conflicts at least ..) I do not think more software will help any and just cause more confusion. Not saying anything about anyone here but I find many people do not like to search and read through many pages but just want a quick answer that they don't have to search for. If the end target could be that the www.spamcop.net FAQ went away, the Forum FAQ went away, and this one actually worked ....??? (believe me, not ignoring your basic concept ... I just re-connected to some of the Microsoft newsgroups to try to catch up there .... damn! ... have no idea how so many can say "I've searched all over but found nothing" and I'm sitting there looking at hundreds of instances of the same question asked over and over (and answered over and over.. day after day .... )) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjvgpuryy Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 .. what I recall is basically setting up a person or two to 'run' rhe thing. Put the major part of it together. We'll say you get tagged as the e-mail account guy ... you start building the thing .. place a FAQ entry ... anyone can come long and 'comment' on that entry. ... make it your call as to what to do with those comments, add them, debate them, delete them, let the post stand as is .... the other answer is that it could be left to one or a number of folks, either specializing in one or more sections .... 23271[/snapback] Sounds something like a Wiki - if it is, there is probably free software for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted January 19, 2005 Author Share Posted January 19, 2005 Wiki keeps coming up ... and I'll agree it's a great concept, a great tool ... however, do a search on "wiki" among my way too many postings and you'll find the one that included to links to places that talked about the downside of running a Wiki. To try to say it here in shorter mode ... a Wiki works great if everybody concerned is on the same team, working towards the same ends. A number of benevolent and beneficial Wikis have been hurt severely by some folks "just having a good time" ???? With the attitude of some "visitors" displayed here, in the newsgroups, other venues, please try to imagine all the "fun" some folks would have in re-writing Wiki contents their way. Yes, there is (usually) some roll-back provisioning, some back-up modes, etc. .. but it still remains that someone (actually, more like a number of someone's) would have to be on top of the entire Wiki at all times to keep it running in good order with valid content. The wonder of a Wiki is that it is writable by all. The problem with a Wiki is that it is writable by all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted January 23, 2005 Author Share Posted January 23, 2005 Edited the Title a bit .. I'm thinking that due to some recent rabble rousing in the newsgroups about whether this Forum should even exist and a bit of disagreement about of why folks should have to be confused about there being more than "one source" of information (what a strange problem?) ... If the big issue is my use of the word FAQ, then how about changing it to "knowledgebase" and take away one argument? I'd actually not expected some of the responses provided here, but the few that responded in the newsgroups has really got me wondering what's going on. One specific was me pointing out that for years, many have made the suggestion of having a FAQ posted on a weekly/monthly basis in the newsgroup. I then pointed out that no one had ever stepped up to the plate to try to develop such a FAQ, much less take it upon themselves to post that monster. Amazed to see someone respond with "what a great idea it would be to have a FAQ posted weekly/monthly in the newsgroup" ...???? (But I admit, I get confused easily <g>) So, with this post bringing the item back into view, with a changed Title, ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidT Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 If the big issue is my use of the word FAQ, then how about changing it to "knowledgebase" and take away one arguement? Very clever. I don't see a problem with having both a FAQ *and* an Knowledgebase available. DT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Betsy Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 I admit that I have not been paying close attention to what is happening, but if there will be a 'How to Use...' forum, then if the pinned items are in each forum and and in the 'How to Use...' forum, then I don't see the need for another knowledgebase or FAQ. I haven't following the instructions on the spamcop web page, or used the search engine though I didn't have much luck with finding something the last time I used it on the forum, but the major problem is that the 'official' spamcop FAQ and the forum FAQ are separate things. (and if the ng objects to an expanded FAQ being on the web forum, let someone there take the responsibility to publish 'boilerplate' answers regularly.) And, if anyone thinks that by having a 'perfect' FAQ that it will reduce silly questions, then there is no point in even going any further. I just thought of something. When we did use 'boilerplate' answers in the ng, we usually prefaced them with here is what 'x' had to say about this. Instead of referring to forum posts as FAQ, perhaps we(tinw) should say, "John (or Steven) answered this question so well I am going to refer you to hir post" That gets people off the question of what is expected of a FAQ and also doesn't make the poster feel that he was a dummy not to have found it in the FAQ. Instead of calling it FAQ, call it FAD - Favorite Answers Database Miss Betsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenUnderwood Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 "John (or Steven) answered this question so well I am going to refer you to hir post" Let's name teh FAQ John (or Steven) Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted April 24, 2005 Author Share Posted April 24, 2005 Wierd .... this came up again today over in the spamcop newsgroup .... news://news.spamcop.net/spamcop Subject: MORE spam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted November 15, 2005 Author Share Posted November 15, 2005 Wierd .... this came up again today over in the spamcop newsgroup .... news://news.spamcop.net/spamcop Subject: MORE spam 26964[/snapback] Geeze, here's one of those posts where "I never send anyone to the newsgroups" .. and yet, here's a link that demonstrates one of the main issues with doing just that .. good luck trying to find a thread from back in April on the news server "today" .... I've normally been pointing back to the newsgroup archives, but then noticing that many folks are posting there with the "X:No-Archive" setting and it's being honored, meaning that these posts are lost completely when they age off the news-server .... Anyway, bringing this Topic back into the 30-day window ... for a possible comparison between the commercial product once mentioned as compared to the freebie now installed here .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.