Chain Letter?

[Jeff G.]

Hi. I (and nine other people) got the following forwarded message from a relative. Do you think the original or the forwarded message qualifies as a chain letter? Thanks!

---------- Forwarded message ----------

From: Tom Matzzie, MoveOn.org Political Action <moveon-help[at]list.moveon.org>

Date: Aug 10, 2005 3:58 PM

Subject: Mom vs. Bush: Sign onto our ad.

We're taking out an ad in President Bush's local newspaper in support of Cindy Sheehan, the mother of a soldier killed in Iraq. Cindy is camped outside Bush's ranch in Texas, asking for a meeting with the president. We'll publish the number of signers and the best comments in a full two-page spread in the Sunday newspaper nearest to Crawford. Can you sign and spread the word before the 3:00 PM Friday print deadline?

Tune into Air America's Morning Sedition for Cindy Sheehan updates every morning at 8:10 AM Eastern. Visit AirAmericaRadio.com to listen live or check for a local station.

Dear MoveOn member,

On April 4th last year, 24-year-old Army Specialist Casey Sheehan died in Iraq. This week, while President Bush vacations in Texas, Casey's mother, Cindy Sheehan, sits vigil outside the president's ranch. Cindy says that she won't leave until President Bush meets with her to discuss the war—even if it means spending all of August there.

Cindy Sheehan was not an anti-war activist, but the loss of her son and the mounting evidence of deception by the Bush administration pushed her to speak out. While Cindy camps roadside in Texas, dozens of other military moms are flying to Texas to join her. Her story is starting to grab national attention, but Cindy needs our support. We're asking moms (and dads, siblings, spouses and kids) from all across America to help send a message by signing our letter of support to Cindy. Will you sign?

http://political.moveon.org/meetwithcindy/...ZOlAs.XkytQ&t=3

To add to the pressure on President Bush, we'll publish the number of signers and the best comments in a full two-page spread in the newspaper nearest to Crawford. We want to be able to print that at least 200,000 people signed the letter to Cindy before the Friday print deadline.

Cindy simply wants to meet with the president to ask him to tell the truth about why her son died—and to stop using Casey's and other soldiers' deaths to justify continuing the war. But Cindy's reflections on the war are also a reminder to all of us about the importance of getting involved:

I shamefully and regretfully admit that before Casey was killed in Iraq I didn't publicly speak out against the war. I didn't shout out and say, "Stop. Stop this insane rush to an invasion that has no basis in reality. Don't invade a country based on cherry-picked intelligence and despicable scare tactics. You don't use our country's precious lifeblood unless its absolutely necessary to defend America." If I had broken the bonds of my slavery to silence sooner, would Casey still be alive? I don't know.

Cindy's story is starting to grab national and international attention, creating a public relations problem for the White House. If we can help Cindy capture the focus of the country for even a couple of days we will sear into the memory of the public the image of the grieving mother—a morally pure reminder of the ultimate reason to end the war: the lost sons and daughters of moms everywhere.

Cindy has appeared on ABC, CNN, and FOX, and yesterday the lead editorial in The New York Times entitled "One Mother in Crawford" noted that "many Americans are with her, at least figuratively, at that dusty roadside in Crawford, expecting better answers." With the White House press corps camped just a short distance away at Bush's ranch, our newspaper ad will help prod them to pay attention to her.

The more of us who sign on, the more impact we'll have. Please sign on now at:

http://political.moveon.org/meetwithcindy/...ZOlAs.XkytQ&t=4

In her grief and bravery, Cindy has become a symbol for millions of Americans who demand better answers about the Iraq war. Though right-wing pundits have attacked her personally, her honesty is unimpeachable. Now more and more mothers (and fathers, brothers, sisters, wives, husbands, sons and daughters) are standing up with Cindy. Please join us, and together, we'll make sure that President Bush can't escape the reality of this war—even in Crawford, Texas.

Thanks for all you do.

–Tom, MoveOn moms Carrie, Marika, and Joan, and the entire MoveOn.org Political Action Team

Wednesday, August 10th, 2005

P.S. Help defray the cost of the print ads in Waco by making a contribution.

https://political.moveon.org/donate/meetwit...ZOlAs.XkytQ&t=5

"One Mother in Crawford" Editorial, The New York Times, August 9, 2005.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/09/opinion/09tue1.html

Video Testimonial by Cindy Sheehan from our friends at TrueMajority.

http://www.truemajority.org/GoldStar_web.mov

P.P.S. After you add your name to the letter to Cindy the next most important thing you can do is to tell Cindy's story to other people. Please let your friends, family and colleagues know about one mother's brave stand in Texas by forwarding this e-mail.

PAID FOR BY MOVEON.ORG POLITICAL ACTION

Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subscription Management:

This is a message from MoveOn.org Political Action. To change your email address, update your contact info, or remove yourself (x) from this list, please visit our subscription management page at:

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[Lking]

"Do you think the original or the forwarded message qualifies as a chain letter? "

Interesting question from a " Group: Moderators" It of course depends Jeff. Are you on MoveOn.org's mailing list? If so, you deserve what you get. If not IMHO it was a chain letter when you got it, and spam here.

[turetzsr]

Hi.  I (and nine other people) got the following forwarded message from a relative.  Do you think the original or the forwarded message qualifies as a chain letter?  Thanks!

<snip>

31573[/snapback]

...Chain letter? Literally, yes ("P.P.S. After you add your name to the letter to Cindy the next most important thing you can do is to tell Cindy's story to other people. Please let your friends, family and colleagues know about one mother's brave stand in Texas by forwarding this e-mail.") but I concede there's an argument that it isn't -- it's political speech (much as I disagree with the content) with an attempt to seek additional supporters.

...spam? No, it came from someone with whom you apparently have informal e-mail contact ("I ... got the following forwarded message from a relative").

...Reportable in SpamCop? As you probably already know, Jeff G, no.

<snip>

Some examples of messages which should not be reported as spam:

<snip>

5. Forwarded/CCed email from "friends and family" regarding signing petitions.

<snip>

[Farelf]

...Reportable in SpamCop? As you probably already know, Jeff G, no.

<snip>

Some examples of messages which should not be reported as spam:

<snip>

5. Forwarded/CCed email from "friends and family" regarding signing petitions.

<snip>

31575[/snapback]

OK, guess that means I don't report the one I received, forwarded to (counting ...) 13 of us through an informal (Australian) veterans' circle.

----- Original Message -----

From: cul hart

Subject: John Glenn

Things that make you think a little:

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq in January. In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January.That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war-torn country of Iraq.

When some claim that President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state the following:

a. FDR led us into World War II.

b. Germany never attacked us; Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost ... an average of 112,500 per year.

c. Truman finished that war and started one in Korea. North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost .an average of 18,334 per year.

d John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.

e. Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost ... an average of 5,800 per year.

f. Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent. Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

g. In the years since terrorists attacked us , President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran, and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking. But …

It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation.

We've been looking for evidence for chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick

It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!!

Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB! The Military morale is high!

The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to realize the facts …

But Wait . there's more!

JOHN GLENN (ON THE SENATE FLOOR) Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:13

Some people still don't understand why military personnel do what they do for a living. This exchange between Senators John Glenn and Senator Howard Metzenbaum is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty impressive impromptu speech, but it's also a good example of one man's explanation of why men and women in the armed services do what they do for a living.

This IS a typical, though sad, example of what some who have never served think of the military.

Senator Metzenbaum (speaking to Senator Glenn): "How can you run for Senate when you've never held a real job?"

Senator Glenn (D-Ohio): "I served 23 years in the United States Marine Corps. I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions. My plane was hit by anti-aircraft fire on 12 different occasions. I was in the space program. It wasn't my checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It was not a nine-to-five job, where I took time

off to take the daily cash receipts to the bank."

"I ask you to go with me ... as I went the other day...to a veteran's hospital and look those men ..with their mangled bodies in the eye, and tell THEM they didn't hold a

job! "

"You go with me to the Space Program at NASA and go, as I have gone, to the widows and Orphans of Ed White, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee...and you look those kids in the eye and tell them that their Dads didn't hold a job."

"You go with me on Memorial Day and you stand in Arlington National Cemetery, where I have more friends buried than I'd like to remember, and you watch those waving flags. You stand there, and you think about this nation, and you tell ME

that those people didn't have a job? "

"What about you?"

For those who don't remember . During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was an attorney representing the Communist Party in the USA. Now he's a Senator!

If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English thank a Veteran.

It might not be a bad idea to keep this circulating.

________________________________________________________________

[Jeff G.]

It might not be a bad idea to keep this circulating.

31579[/snapback]

That's a far cry from

Please let your friends, family and colleagues know about ... by forwarding this e-mail.

Is cul hart's forward veiled enough to not be a chain letter? Given the number of recipients of that forward, I'd think not (that is, it shouldn't be reported via SpamCop because it was forwarded as a chain letter).

[Farelf]

Given the number of recipients of that forward, I'd think not (that is, it shouldn't be reported via SpamCop because it was forwarded as a chain letter).

Thanks Jeff

[Wazoo]

Starting out with that I'm a biased, being retired Army and having worked (Signals) Intelligence, Electronic Warfare, Research & Development in the same field, and all those other associated general soldierly things <g>

Chain letter or not, the family member would be receiving a bit of a recitaion on the eviks of blindly forwarding things like that ... (and yes, I've a fair portion of family members that don't e-mail me anything after hearing the tirades against HTML, 5 Meg pictures, ....)

The classic definition of a chain letter includes the usually nasty things that will happen to you if you fail to send them on. Neither of these samples carries that kind of a threat.

Subject matter of both should be matters that are discussed openly, publically, and loudly ... unfortunately, that requires background investigation, colation of facts, a forum for said discussion, and good presentation. Therefore, it won't happen <g>

Though with all sympathies possible offered for Cindy Sheehan for the loss, her current actions are woefully misdirected, in my opinion. Tom Matzzie, the alleged author of Jeff G.'s sample needs to receive a clue-by-four somewhere that he'd notice. The included commentary "based on cherry-picked intelligence and despicable scare tactics" points towards a more correct target, although probably only intended to be inflammatory rather than informational. For a bit of historical corollary, here's an interview with James Bamford (pushing his new book) http://www.insightmag.com/media/paper441/n...le-161208.shtml ... have not read this one, but have caught a couple of live interviews over the last couple of weeks and definitly recall the hell raised when his The Puzzle Palace was released. (and the impossibility of actually finding a copy of it in the D.C. area, allegedly due to the NSA buying all copies <g>) Noting that the Liberty incident is still hotly debated in some circles and the Pueblo is still a North Korean national monumnet .... both items still unknown, forgotten, or ignored by the vast majority of the U.S. public ...

Farelf's sample just brings up so many sore spots .... Clinton's days for instance .. not liking the military in uniform cluttering up his White House .. Hiring White House press secretary Dee Dee Myers, who on a tour of the Pentagon, had the lunacy to ask on camera "what does DoD mean? I see it all over the place here" (and for those that also don't know DoD = Department of Defense, a little outfit headquartered at the Pentagon) ... listening to Congress debate, bitch and moan about the cost of materials, supplies, and equipment but then acting surprised whan a contractor used a fork lift to bring in the three tons of paperwork - the entire U.S. Federal Acquisition Requirements/Regulations documentation set that 'explained' how services and equipment were to be procured - trying to explain some of the reasons that some things just weren't 'cheap' ... better stop now <g>

[Farelf]

Farelf's sample just brings up so many sore spots .... better stop now <g>

31592[/snapback]

Hard to though, isn't it. "Good Queen Bess" put her diabled sailors out to beg for food after they (and the lousy Pommy weather) had whipped the armada. Winston Churchill argued continuously with his Chiefs of General Staff - he reckoned WW2 should be fought on the same basis as the Boer War, all front-line, no need for support. It just keeps on keeping on.

[Miss Betsy]

Speaking of chain letters, many of my regular correspondents now know about snopes and check things out before they forward. One of them forwarded a story about EMT's looking on cell phones for emergency information. It was suggested that people put emergency phone numbers under ICE (In Case of Emergency) so that the EMT's know whom to call.

There was another one (which I didn't check out) about three ways to identify stroke victims - again something worth knowing, if true.

I took the Boulder Pledge so I don't pass anything along to 'everyone' (though occasionally something strikes my fancy and I do send it to a couple of people that I think might also enjoy it - always minus the please pass on.) These two might be exceptions (though I probably will not send to 'everyone' and won't just forward).

A funny story about 'replying to all' when you don't like the subject matter of the 'forward': a parent forwarded a story that criticized the life choices of his child and the child 'replied to all' - talk about reality shows!

But, in my experience, more and more people are becoming aware of snopes (and truthorfiction and other sources that keep track of chain emails) and 'replying to all' when they get something that isn't pure opinion so that everyone knows that it is false and that forwarded emails should be checked out for accuracy.

And, to go back to the thread, read Kipling's Tommy.

Miss Betsy

[Lking]

Starting out with that I'm a biased, being retired Army and having worked (Signals) Intelligence,  Electronic Warfare, Research & Development in the same field, and all those other associated general soldierly things <g>

31592[/snapback]

Biased? Well me too, the some but different, Retired Air Force, worked on MacNamara's wall in SEA, the old Security Service and more followed by work in the same field(s) as a "beltway bandit". One kid in the Navy and one overseas with the State Department. Yes I'm biased.

Subject matter of both should be matters that are discussed openly, publically, and loudly ... unfortunately, that requires background investigation, colation of facts, a forum for said discussion, and good presentation.  Therefore, it won't happen <g>

Though with all sympathies possible offered for Cindy Sheehan for the loss, <snip>

31592[/snapback]

We do need to be carefull that we don't cherry pick our chain letters. Accepting some "letters" as OK because we empathize with the cause de jure is not much different than accepting some spam as OK because we agree with 'cheap software.' Situational ethics results in some tough situations.

For a bit of historical corollary, here's an interview with James Bamford (pushing his new book) ... have not read this one, but have caught a couple of live interviews over the last couple of weeks and definitly recall the hell raised when his The Puzzle Palace was released.  (and the impossibility of actually finding a copy of it in the D.C. area, allegedly due to the NSA buying all copies <g>) Noting that the Liberty incident is still hotly debated in some circles and the Pueblo is still a North Korean national monumnet .... both items still unknown, forgotten, or ignored by the vast majority of the U.S. public ...

31592[/snapback]

The Body of Secrets is also good. I did "manage" to get a copy of The Puzzle Palace back in the day (NSA didn't buy all the copies, NSA employees did!). On a trip to NSA I was reading it on the plain. The driver that picked me up at the airport turnned me in because he saw my copy. They didn't put my head on a pike but I found something else to read on the next trip.

But we digress. IMHO the subject here, in this forum, is (should be) what is a chain letter and should they be reported using SC.

The second question, report what, is a matter of SC policy and covered in the FAQ. By one def of a chain letter, they come from someone you know. So does <Jeff G> want to report his mother as a spammer? I think not. I'm somewhat like Wazoo, anyone I really know hesitates to email me anything for fear of "being flamed."

As for the first question, the 'pass it on' line does give a clue as to what is a chain letter, this too can be missleading. Historicly chain letters came from well meanning people with a real cause or were just miss guided. They came from someone you know and IMO should be just trashed. On the other hand, the 'send money and pass it on' letters are a different matter. In Jeff G's example who is going to check that

<snip>we'll publish the number of signers and the best comments in a full two-page spread in the newspaper nearest to Crawford. We want to be able to print that at least 200,000 people signed the letter to Cindy before the Friday print deadline.

31592[/snapback]

This does have a ring to it, 'Do it NOW before the deadline (and before you think)' operators are standing by. We have a cause de jure and no real way to check where the money goes. Lets see, heart jerking cause, 10,000 copies sent by others, 1:100 send $1, ... If it walks like a duck and looks like a duck...

When rereading this I need to make one "little" change. I do not intend to group MOVEON.ORG with the scammers/hustlers as may be implyed from paragraph above. As Miss Betsy said "check it out first" and if I may say don't send it to me.

[qjvgpuryy]

And, to go back to the thread, read Kipling's Tommy.

Miss Betsy

31595[/snapback]

My friend Google informs me that Kipling's Tommy is available online, should anyone (else) wish to read it.

[Wazoo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_letter ??? Detail added to the Glossary ... working on the reporting issue ...

http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/125.html

Hoaxes and form letters

Often, individuals receive email warning them of a new virus, a pending law, or some other threat. A chain letter may offer individuals amazing rewards for forwarding the letter. Emails such as these can and do circulate for years. Recipients should view skeptically any email which asks the recipient to send copies to more individuals. In addition, it is recommended the recipient research the issue or threat using online resources such as Google or snopes.com before forwarding the mail. This kind of email is a nuisance, but is not spam, and should not be reported via the SpamCop service.

If a recipient knows the sender of a hoax or form letter, the recipient should consider personal contact with the sender prior to reporting the email as spam. Reporting email as spam results in real consequences for many email users. The sender's ISP may fine the sender or terminate his account due to a single spam report. A company may discipline or fire one of its employees for sending email that generates complaints. Forwarding a form letter, joke, or chain letter rarely, if ever, justifies such severe consequences. Rather than reporting the mail as spam, the recipient should send a personal reply to the sender, explain that it is not appropriate to send such email, and ask them to not send it in the future.

[Jeff G.]

Someone else forwarded a copy of "Alan Dershowitz: Telling the Truth About Chief Justice Rehnquist", which appears to have been originally posted at http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20050905/...06844&printer=1.

[btech]

MoveOn is a mailing list that you have to subscribe to. I'm on it.

[Jeff G.]

Entire World Reacts Ecstatically

Congress today announced that the office of President of the United States of America will be outsourced to overseas interests as of August 31st. The move is being made to save not only a significant portion of the President's $400,000.00 yearly salary, but also a record $521 billion in deficit expenditures and related overhead.

"We believe this is a wise move financially. The cost savings should be significant," stated Congressman Thomas Reynolds (R-Wash.). Reynolds, with the aid of the Government Accountability Office, has studied outsourcing of American jobs extensively. "We cannot expect to remain competitive on the world stage with the current level of cash outlay," Reynolds noted.

Mr. Bush was informed by e-mail this morning of his termination. Preparations for the job move have been underway for some time. Gurvinder Sing of Indus Teleservices, Mumbai, India will be assuming the office of President as of September 1st. Mr. Singh was born in the United States while his Indian parents were vacationing at Niagara Falls, thus making him eligible for the position. He will receive a salary of $320 (USD) a month but with no health coverage or other benefits.

It is believed that Mr. Singh will be able to handle his job responsibilities without support staff. Due to the time difference between the US and India, he will be working primarily at night, when few offices of the US Government will be open. "Working nights will allow me to keep my day job at the American Express call center," stated Mr. Singh in an exclusive interview. "I am excited about this position. I always hoped I would be President someday."

A Congressional Spokesperson noted that while Mr. Singh may not be fully aware of all the issues involved in the office of President, this should not be a problem. Mr Singh will rely upon a scri_pt tree that will enable him to respond effectively to most topics of concern. Using this tree, he can address common concerns without having to understand anything about the underlying issues at all. "We know these scripting tools work," stated the Spokesperson. "Mr. Bush has used them successfully for years."

Mr. Bush will receive health coverage, expenses, and salary until his final day of employment. Following a two week waiting period, he will be eligible for $240 dollars a week unemployment for 13 weeks. Unfortunately he will not be eligible for Medicaid as his unemployment benefits will exceed the allowed limit.

Mr. Bush has been provided the outplacement services of Manpower, Inc. to help him write a resume and prepare for his upcoming job transition. According to Manpower, Mr. Bush may have difficulties in securing a new position due to limited practical work experience. One possibility is re-enlistment in theAir National Guard. Should he choose this option, he would likely be stationed in Iraq, a country he has visited. "I've been there, I know all about Iraq," stated Mr. Bush, who gained invaluable knowledge of the country in a visit to the Baghdad Airport's gift shop.

Sources in Baghdad and Falluja say Mr. Bush would receive a warm reception from local Iraqis. They have asked to be provided with details of his arrival so that they might arrange a series of appropriate welcomes.

[justauser]

You might also be interested in the documentary at http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848

[Telarin]

Thanks Jeff, that made my day