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Jeff S

Yahoo! Mailservers Blocklisted

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Yahoo's #4 listing may have more to do with Yahoo hosting the spammers' websites as opposed to the sending of spam. (Although I could be wrong.)

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It would be very helpful if those experiencing a problem between Yahoo! Groups and SpamCop would include exact details in their replies, contact Yahoo! Groups tech support personnel about this issue, or both.  If the details are confidential, they can be emailed to the Deputies via their email address deputies <at> spamcop.net.

22212[/snapback]

Dear Jeff,

I am the administrator of two Yahoogroups and Spamcop has listed them as spam. How do I get you to remove the yahoogroups from your spam list. I have many screaming members :-)

Yahoogroups/RAMMOD

Yahoogroups/RMLST

How do I get the ISP address or how do I contact Yahoogroups support?

Thank you

Dov Gilor

Remote host said: 550 5.7.1 Blacklisted: http://www.spamcop.net: xxx[at]012.net

[RCPT_TO]

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Dear Jeff,

I am the administrator of two Yahoogroups and Spamcop has listed them as spam. How do I get you to remove the yahoogroups from your spam list. I have many screaming members :-)

Yahoogroups/RAMMOD

Yahoogroups/RMLST

How do I get the ISP address or how do I contact Yahoogroups support?

Thank you

Dov Gilor

Remote host said: 550 5.7.1 Blacklisted: http://www.spamcop.net: xxx[at]012.net

[RCPT_TO]

40408[/snapback]

You can try to contact Yahoo! Groups Support by asking a question at http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/abuse/abuse-07.html.

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Dear Jeff, 

 

I am the administrator of two Yahoogroups and Spamcop has listed them as spam. How do I get you to remove the yahoogroups from your spam list. I have many screaming members :-) 

 

Yahoogroups/RAMMOD 

Yahoogroups/RMLST 

 

How do I get the ISP address or how do I contact Yahoogroups support? 

<snip>

40408[/snapback]

Hi, Dov,

...Something that Jeff G neglected to mention is that he is not a SpamCop employee. He is just a SpamCop user who volunteers to try to answer questions about SpamCop from other users such as you and me. Therefore, he is unable to change the blacklist.

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Steve T is correct; I hope that his statements are covered sufficiently by my signature.

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I wonder if the people at SpamCop realize how much crap this is for most users who have no idea why they are not receiving mail anymore, who do not know who to turn to, and how to fix this, or what in the world is a whitelist.

I turned to my service provider, which is 100% clueless. So if a whitelist doesn't work, the Yahoo Group for which I am an owner could turn out not to be accessible for me anymore.

I'd be better off without SpamCop. I'd have more spam to filter, but at least, I'd be able to sort it out by myself.

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It's the spammers' fault for spamming.

It's Yahoo!'s fault for not cracking down hard enough on the spammers.

It's your ISP's fault for using the SCBL in an unapproved manner (not allowing whitelisting).

It's not the SCBL's fault, the SCBL is just listing Yahoo!'s servers that relay too much spam.

It's not SpamCop's fault, SpamCop is just doing its job in running the SCBL as its subscribers wish.

Please stop using incompetent providers Yahoo! and your ISP.

Thanks!

Edited by Jeff G.

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Hi, mmunger!

...Thanks for taking the time to join and post your thoughts.

I wonder if the people at SpamCop realize how much crap this is for most users who have no idea why they are not receiving mail anymore, who do not know who to turn to, ...

40470[/snapback]

...With all due respect, I believe you are looking at this backwards. The people putting up with the most crap are those who receive spam from Yahoo servers because Yahoo admins are either clueless or unwilling to control it.
... and how to fix this, or what in the world is a whitelist.

40470[/snapback]

...Sorry, I'm not all that sorry for them. If they don't know, they can ask -- how else do they or you or I ever learn anything we don't know about?
I turned to my service provider, which is 100% clueless.

40470[/snapback]

...If you aren't stuck with this provider (and very few people these days have only one choice), I'd suggest you run as fast and as far from them as possible. Such cluelessness surely is inexcusable!
So if a whitelist doesn't work, the Yahoo Group for which I am an owner could turn out not to be accessible for me anymore.

40470[/snapback]

...This must be a much different Yahoo Group than any of those with which I've signed up -- I can access (and do access) any of mine online at http://groups.yahoo.com/.
I'd be better off without SpamCop. I'd have more spam to filter, but at least, I'd be able to sort it out by myself.

40470[/snapback]

...The dozens or hundreds or thousands (I don't have a clue how many there are) people who benefit from the SpamCop blacklist, though, would be most displeased if it did not exist. And no one is forced to use it (especially to use it to block, as opposed to sorting, e-mail).

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I wonder if the people at SpamCop realize how much crap this is for most users who have no idea why they are not receiving mail anymore, who do not know who to turn to, and how to fix this, or what in the world is a whitelist.

I turned to my service provider, which is 100% clueless. So if a whitelist doesn't work, the Yahoo Group for which I am an owner could turn out not to be accessible for me anymore.

I'd be better off without SpamCop. I'd have more spam to filter, but at least, I'd be able to sort it out by myself.

40470[/snapback]

The operative word here is 'myself' - as long as I can handle it myself, there is no problem. However, there are lots of people who are not able to handle it because there are too many spam, because they don't know how to operate content filters, or whatever.

If you told a mechanic that it was a lot of crap because you didn't have any idea why your car stopped working, that you didn't know how to fix it, and you had no idea how fuel injection works or what in the world those funny looking symbols on your dashboard were, you wouldn't get much sympathy. Some people can change their oil; others pay someone to do it. The ones who break down because they don't know that oil has to be changed.... well, that's another story.

Miss Betsy

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Hi turetzsr,

How to explain this the simple way... your view seems to be closer to an insider's view than a user's view.

You are basically telling a user that everything here is easy to figure out and that if he has a problem, he either has it wrong, doesn't understand of should switch ISPs. And that everybody out there can ask for info and understand these issues. I may be tech-savvy enough to understand many things, but how many users are left in the dark when such situations arise?

I'm among those who want to do things in a particular way and won't compromise - that's getting my Yahoo Groups through e-mail, NOT from a Web interface - and would rather receive more spam than see legitimate mail being blocked.

That may force me to switch to a different Web host and try to find one that doesn't use SpamCop, but I'm not about to change my mind about the issue.

And I definitely won't blame Yahoo. Running and hosting all the services they have is a big task. You can crack down on many things, but you cannot control all things at all times. If you manage to do it, it usually means that you sacrificed legitimate activities to do so.

Throw in the fact that they are a public company that has one mission: turn the biggest possible profit and hire the smallest number of people. They probably don't have enough staff to handle all the spam prevention work. Reality sucks, doesn't it?

I addressed similar criticism to the IT department at my office. Sure, their spam filter cracks down on spam, but I've received phone calls from real people who asked me why they received a reply telling them that their messages were blocked as spam.

Think about it: in such specific situations, there are people who have to turn to an older type of technology (the telephone) because a more modern, more promising one that was supposed to allow them to send text and files instantly and conveniently isn't allowing them to do what they want. Isn't that ironic ;)

(Please excuse the sorry state of my written English. I'm French-speaking)

Edited by mmunger

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The operative word here is 'myself' - as long as I can handle it myself, there is no problem.  However, there are lots of people who are not able to handle it because there are too many spam, because they don't know how to operate content filters, or whatever.

If you told a mechanic that it was a lot of crap because you didn't have any idea why your car stopped working, that you didn't know how to fix it, and you had no idea how fuel injection works or what in the world those funny looking symbols on your dashboard were, you wouldn't get much sympathy.  Some people can change their oil; others pay someone to do it.  The ones who break down because they don't know that oil has to be changed.... well, that's another story.

40473[/snapback]

Interesting analogy, but at least, you can pay the mechanic to fix the car. With SpamCop, the situation is technically out of my hands because it is my ISP that does business with them. And Yahoo's job to make sure they are not blacklisted.

Which sends me back to the problem with the ISP and the fact that I'd rather have an ISP that doesn't use SpamCop.

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Hi turetzsr,

40474[/snapback]

..."turetzsr" is just my SpamCop Forum user id -- I prefer to be addressed as "Steve T" (see my sig). Thanks! :) <g>
How to explain this the simple way... your view seem to be closer to an insider's view than a user's view.

40474[/snapback]

...Actually, I'm both something of an insider and (very much) a user -- as I pointed out, I do use Yahoo Groups. I am also an e-mail user. I am also a spam victim.
You are basically telling a user that everything here is easy to figure out and that if has a problem, he either has it wrong, doesn't understand ...

40474[/snapback]

...Sorry if I left that impression -- that was not at all what I was trying to convey. I've been there -- I was very recently totally ignorant of all this spam blocking stuff and haven't found understanding it all that easy. My interest in SpamCop is more to inform server admins that their servers are being abused to send spam rather than blocking spam, per se (although now that I'm more knowledgeable, I certainly like the idea of blocking spam!).

...Users don't have to understand it all, as they don't have to understand (to take Miss Betsy's analogy, above) all the ins and outs of how a car operates. But they do have the responsibility to understand (or accept "on faith") some of the basics. If they don't understand something they feel they should know they should ask ("my car stopped dead -- what did I do wrong that I should avoid doing in the future?").

of should switch ISPs.

40474[/snapback]

...To extend Miss Betsy's analogy: if a user is not getting the service from their mechanic that they're paying for [because, for example, the mechanic is, as you say of your service provider, clueless], they should find a new mechanic. I don't understand why anyone would think that expectation unreasonable.
And that everybody out there can ask for info and understand these issues. I may be tech-savvy enough to understand many things, but how many users are left in the dark when such situations arise?

40474[/snapback]

...If they don't ask, they can't know, that is true. But I don't believe I can't be expected to have much sympathy for them. Being an adult is all about learning enough about how your world works to be able to work effectively within it, sometimes with the help of others.
I'm among those who want to do things in a particular way and won't compromise - that's getting my Yahoo Groups through e-mail, NOT from a Web interface - and would rather receive more spam than see legitimate mail being blocked.

That may force me to switch to a different Web host and try to find one that doesn't use SpamCop, but I'm not about to change my mind about the issue.

40474[/snapback]

...That is your choice and you have every right to your position. But that does not give you the right to insist that the rest of us not have the right to utilize services such as SpamCop.
And I definitely won't blame Yahoo. Running and hosting all the services they have is a big task. You can crack down on many things, but you cannot control all things at all times. If you manage to do it, it usually means that you sacrificed legitimate activities to do so.

40474[/snapback]

...You say this as if Yahoo has to block each and every spam on every single attempt to send spam. SpamCop's rules for getting on the blacklist do not require that level of monitoring. See SpamCop FAQ: What is the SpamCop Blocking List (SCBL)? (available from the "SpamCop F A Q" -- see link near top of page).
I already told the IT department at my workplace similar things. Sure, their spam filter cracks down on spam, but I've received phone calls from real people who asked me why they received a reply telling them that their messages were blocked as spam.

40474[/snapback]

...And have you asked them to permit you to whitelist these "real people" or to use the SCBL the way SpamCop, itself, suggests, to sort/filter, rather than to reject, e-mail from spam sources (see SpamCop FAQ: How do I configure my mailserver to reject mail based on the blocklist?)?
Think about it: in such specific situations, there people who have to turn to an older type of technology (the telephone) because a more modern, more promising one that was supposed to allow them to send text and files instantly and conveniently isn't allowing them to do what they want. Isn't that ironic  ;)

40474[/snapback]

...Yep, spammers have spoiled things for everyone! Edited by turetzsr

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<snip>

(Please excuse the sorry state of my written English. I'm French-speaking)

This post has been edited by mmunger: Feb 14 2006, 07:33 PM

40474[/snapback]

...Sheesh! If there were anything to forgive, I would; your written English is superb -- I wish they typical Yank's (including my own) were as good as yours! :) <g>

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<a>And I definitely won't blame Yahoo. Running and hosting all the services they have is a big task. You can crack down on many things, but you cannot control all things at all times. If you manage to do it, it usually means that you sacrificed legitimate activities to do so.

...

<b>Think about it: in such specific situations, there are people who have to turn to an older type of technology (the telephone) because a more modern, more promising one that was supposed to allow them to send text and files instantly and conveniently isn't allowing them to do what they want. Isn't that ironic  ;)

<c>(Please excuse the sorry state of my written English. I'm French-speaking)

40474[/snapback]

<a> that is your right, but since SpamCop is a very dynamic list, dropping the listings when the spam stops, IF Yahoo took the issue seriously and stopped the spammers sooner, their listings would be minimal. That is not the case.

<b>The telephone is a guaranteed means of transmission, when you are talking to the other party, you know they are getting the message. SMTP is NOT a guaranteed means of transmission, never has been, never will be. Any server along the way can simply drop the message and no one will know the difference unless it is an expected message.

Also, email was never designed to send files, that has been added on much more recently. SMTP as designed was for text only.

<c> Your written English is very good. I would not have known I was not reading my neighbors post until this line.

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<snip>

<c> Your written English is very good.  I would not have known I was not reading my neighbors post until this line.

40479[/snapback]

...But I did know -- although quite competent with English, my neighbors' English is not as good as mmunger's! :) <g>

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I'm among those who want to do things in a particular way and won't compromise - that's getting my Yahoo Groups through e-mail, NOT from a Web interface - and would rather receive more spam than see legitimate mail being blocked.

That may force me to switch to a different Web host and try to find one that doesn't use SpamCop, but I'm not about to change my mind about the issue.

And I definitely won't blame Yahoo. Running and hosting all the services they have is a big task. You can crack down on many things, but you cannot control all things at all times. If you manage to do it, it usually means that you sacrificed legitimate activities to do so.

40474[/snapback]

You may prefer to sort through your spam for the legitimate emails. Many business people seem to feel that way. But, if ordinary people thought about it, they would prefer to use blocklists. For one thing, the receiver should not have to work to receive an email. That's why so many people sign up for the 'Do Not Call Lists' for spam via telephone. Sure, screening calls on the answering machine worked, but most people did not want to even have that hassle. Another reason that people would prefer blocklists than spam filters is that it is easy to miss a legitimate email. There are so many spam emails. If that happens, no one knows that the email was not read. With blocklists, if it is a legitimate email, the sender knows and can use alternate methods to convey his message - including a non-spammy email address.

In addition, the only problems I have had with text files are with spam filters that do not allow the use of attachments. With blocklists, the criterion is the IP address that is known to be sending spam as well as legitimate email.

And if enough Yahoo subscribers complained about poor service, Yahoo would fix the problem quickly. The problem is that people do not understand that it is irresponsible, incompetent, greedy people who are perpetuating the spam problem and that includes Yahoo.

Unfortuntately, people either are ignorant of how to use the internet responsibly or don't care as long as they can do what they want. And so until more people understand how to use the internet responsibly, the ones who only care about themselves will perpetuate spam.

Miss Betsy

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Interesting analogy, but at least, you can pay the mechanic to fix the car. With SpamCop, the situation is technically out of my hands because it is my ISP that does business with them. And Yahoo's job to make sure they are not blacklisted.

<snip>

40475[/snapback]

...That's like saying that (assuming you live in a country with a representative system of government) what the government does is out of your hands because legislators make laws and government officials enforce them. It is partially true that it's out of your hands but in another sense it is only in your hands (and those of your fellow voters) -- no one else can affect them. Likewise, no one but the users of your ISP and Yahoo can do anything about how they behave.

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Well, we could send each other endless replies but I fear we would end up repeating ourselves. I guess we just have to agree to disagree. I'd rather have all my mail and be sure that I am missing nothing, even if that means dealing with more spam on my end.

As far as my ISP's response, I threatened to go to another host, and upon that threat, I quickly got a response from a customer service representative who seems to have a bit more of a clue than the others. He asked me for server information to make sure that he could whitelist Yahoo servers.

They didn't go the distance by disabling SpamCop for my setup, but at least, whitelisting the Yahoo servers was an acceptable solution.

I'll probably receive more spam now that the servers are not blocked anymore, but at least, my Yahoo Groups mail has not been bouncing for a few days.

Fingers crossed!

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<snip>

As far as my ISP's response, I threatened to go to another host, and upon that threat, I quickly got a response from a customer service representative who seems to have a bit more of a clue than the others. He asked me for server information to make sure that he could whitelist Yahoo servers.

They didn't go the distance by disabling SpamCop for my setup, but at least, whitelisting the Yahoo servers was an acceptable solution.

I'll probably receive more spam now that the servers are not blocked anymore, but at least, my Yahoo Groups mail has not been bouncing for a few days.

Fingers crossed!

40593[/snapback]

...Thank you for taking the time to let us know this. I, too, hope this works for you! Bonne chance! :) <g>

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Connected to 207.19.62.24 but sender was rejected.

Remote host said: 554 Your host 209.191.87.94 was found in the DNS

Blacklist at bl.spamcop.net. Please visit the site and remove your domain

from it.

--- Below this line is a copy of the message.

I am a brand new computer user and am getting this message when I send e-mail to one certain address. Why does this happen?

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http://www.spamcop.net/w3m?action=checkblo...p=209.191.87.94

209.191.87.94 listed in bl.spamcop.net (127.0.0.2)

If there are no reports of ongoing objectionable email from this system it will be delisted automatically in approximately 22 hours.

Causes of listing

System has sent mail to SpamCop spam traps in the past week (spam traps are secret, no reports or evidence are provided by SpamCop)

SpamCop users have reported system as a source of spam less than 10 times in the past we

FAQ = Frequently Asked Questions ---- the links to the FAQs at the top of the pge take one to a list of things that have had answers developed and posted ...

The first point to be addressed is that you titled your query with the word "account" .. but you will note that the 'error message' .. the data, the pointers, the response ... all deal with an IP address.

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I am a brand new computer user and am getting this message when I send e-mail to one certain address. Why does this happen?

41235[/snapback]

Someone using Yahoo's webmail service has been spamming and Yahoo has not stopped them. With enough reports, the IP address of the server gets added to the spamcop blocklist.

Report History:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submitted: Saturday, March 11, 2006 9:11:23 AM -0500:

*** spam *** MY SINCERE REQUEST!!!

1686353456 ( 209.191.87.94 ) To: network-abuse[at]cc.yahoo-inc.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submitted: Thursday, March 09, 2006 2:06:19 PM -0500:

cash grant donation!!!

1684467636 ( 209.191.87.94 ) To: spamcop[at]imaphost.com

1684467581 ( 209.191.87.94 ) To: network-abuse[at]cc.yahoo-inc.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submitted: Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:59:43 AM -0500:

URGENT RESPONSE NEEDED

1684192703 ( 209.191.87.94 ) To: mole[at]devnull.spamcop.net

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submitted: Thursday, March 09, 2006 5:13:35 AM -0500:

NOTIFICATION!

1683990946 ( http://www.national-lottery.co.uk/player/p/home... ) To: postmaster[at]objectronix.co.uk

1683990926 ( http://www.national-lottery.co.uk/player/p/home... ) To: postmaster[at]camelotinteractive.com

1683990909 ( 81.199.209.13 ) To: abuse[at]ipplanet.com

1683990893 ( 209.191.87.94 ) To: network-abuse[at]cc.yahoo-inc.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submitted: Monday, March 06, 2006 7:56:40 PM -0500:

[spam] Dear, Sir / mma

1681330987 ( 209.191.87.94 ) To: spamcop[at]imaphost.com

1681330982 ( 209.191.87.94 ) To: network-abuse[at]cc.yahoo-inc.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submitted: Monday, March 06, 2006 11:02:43 AM -0500:

URGENT RESPONSE NEEDED

1680871505 ( 209.191.87.94 ) To: network-abuse[at]cc.yahoo-inc.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submitted: Sunday, March 05, 2006 12:20:45 AM -0500:

FROM: MR VLADMIR PASOVSKY

1680957298 ( 209.191.87.94 ) To: spamcop[at]imaphost.com

1680957280 ( 209.191.87.94 ) To: network-abuse[at]cc.yahoo-inc.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submitted: Saturday, March 04, 2006 6:55:09 PM -0500:

About The Japanese Oil Consultant With Mr.Lawrence Smith

1679099194 ( 209.191.87.94 ) To: spamcop[at]imaphost.com

1679099193 ( http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt... ) To: network-abuse[at]cc.yahoo-inc.com

1679099191 ( 209.191.87.94 ) To: network-abuse[at]cc.yahoo-inc.com

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Someone using Yahoo's webmail service has been spamming and Yahoo has not stopped them.  ...

41237[/snapback]

Absolutely correct, also perhaps the greatest understatement ever posted "here". Refer to http://www.senderbase.org/search?searchStr...209.191.87.0/24 and find an IP address currently not listed - all sending out 100,000 messages a day, all showing massive increases in activity.
Volume Statistics for this IP

Magnitude  Vol Change vs. Average

Last day  4.9  1331%

Last 30 days  4.2  167%

Average  3.7

typical (209.191.87.115)

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Quote...

"However, until the blocking problem is resolved, you can email people through a web based email service (the most familiar web based email services are hotmail and yahoo)."

Uhhhhh, no you can't! It is my yahoo account that is being blocked in fact, so now what?

I am another yahoo e-mail user who can't use my e-mail account to contact a few companies actually. I'm working this morning also, and I can't even communicate via e-mail to the people I need to communicate with.

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