False Arrest is Irresponsible (original topic)

[bholmes]

I am extremely annoyed. Until this afternoon I had never heard of Spamcop. Yet, this afternoon I discover they are responsible for blocking my domain’s email account (in spite of the fact I never send out spam).

I go to their website, and am perfectly willing to pay for a long distance call to contact them, yet I can’t find any phone number. I do have an email address for them, which I used (supplied by my email host), yet I have not even received a response that they are processing my inquiry. Heck, they probably won’t receive it, since they blocked me!

And then I find this forum, and the are all kinds of rules to read all the different threads before posting…because, heck, maybe I will find an answer to my inquiry.

Well folks, I did try to read through the threads, and now I have a head ache, and am so frustrated I want to cry. I NEVER send out spam, but I certainly receive enough of it each day, hundreds! Why in the world don’t they figure out how to stop the real spammers????????

On one of my email accounts I sent out a auto response, letting those sending me email there that I was no longer reading email from that account, and giving them my new email address. I did this because **I** was receiving so much junk each day, that I could not wade through all the junk. So I figured those “real” folks who send me email, would have my real email address. I would then delete all the messages in that account every week or so.

Well now I am told that that account is called a “catchall”, because all the email sent to my domain, with bogus email addies, ended up there. And the email from Spamcop to my provider said I had a catchall with an autorsponder and that was the problem.

First of all, I didn’t make that email account a catchall. Since day one, (since the first part of the email was the same as the domain name), it always accepted all the email sent to the domain. If I knew of a way to filter all of that out I WOULD HAVE!

I have several questions.

1. Since when is it a crime to use an autoresponder?? Everyone uses them, and we are always told to send them out to clients to let them know you have received their email, or to let them know if you are on vacation.

2. Since the auto responder only responded to incoming mail, how is that spam??? They send to me FIRST.

3. And whose right is it to label you a spammer because you send out a large amount of mail??? I am assuming that was what did it, since the auto responder sent out a lot of mail to those incoming spam.

4. How do I fix this? I can’t afford to not contact my clients. I don’t think I should have to jump though all kinds of hoops, just because a company like spamcop has appointed themselves the internet police – and has made a false arrest!!

As far as I am concerned, putting my domain on some black list, and causing me financial hardship, without giving me a chance to resolve this, is IRRESPONSIBLE and even more damning than those horrid spammers who send me unwanted junk mail.

Really annoyed in Arizona. :angry:

[bholmes]

Just a note...I also have a Yahoo account, which I use to send myself stuff from home to the office. I have been trying to email my Yahoo accout, (to see how BLOCKED I really am) but the email is not going through, so I can only guess that the Spamcop is responsible. Ironically, as I went to check my Yahoo account, there were a number of emails for "viagra" and "multiple orgazims" which made it to my account...yet my own email is apparaently blocked. If Spamcop is not responsible, and if my mail is just delayed at Yahoo, then I apologize. Yet, if the efforts of SpamCop stopped my mail from reaching Yahoo, yet allowed that OBVIOUS spam through, then I seriously question the quality of their product.

Still cranky in Arizona. :angry:

[Farelf]

I am extremely annoyed. Until this afternoon I had never heard of Spamcop. Yet, this afternoon I discover they are responsible for blocking my domain’s email account (in spite of the fact I never send out spam)...

Commiserations bholmes, really annoyed in Arizona. Can imagine how you feel but you're attacking a "symptom" (besides which we're not "SpamCop" as such - just users). If you're running with the false arrest analogy, what most people sharing an IP on a blocklist are like is a passenger on a bus with a drunken driver at the wheel. You sure are inconvenienced, but you're not the one "arrested." In your case, if you share your IP you're more like the one causing the problem for the rest and you're just blind (not blind drunk). Note SC doesn't block you. The ISPs at (some of) the addresses you may or may not be sending to are using the SCBL (contrary to SC's actual advice) to block you. Autoresponders became a liability once 99% of the addresses in spam became real but forged address and just got worse and worse as the spam:ham ratios increased.

Look at it another way - a catch-all with autoresponse makes you a worse menace than the real spammers. Think of all those innocent folk (whose addresses have been forged) getting second hand spam (if you repeat the original) or, in any event, unwanted "replies". You are sending out more spam than any individual spammer would since you are re-distributing the "product" of every single spammer who hits that address. I'm sure you're a nice person, just haven't thought it through, but many thousands of folk who have never heard of you curse you every day and scumbag scammers have every reason to bless you as you blythly do their work for them. Why would you imagine people read and analyze your misdirected bounces (to see that you are not the originator) when you don't look at the stuff either? The spamtraps aren't even intelligent.

There are ways to safely autorespond - to whitelists for instance (people you write to). No doubt others here can give you any amount of tips if you want to get specific about situations, hardware and software but please cease indisciminate autoresponse. No, it's not a crime. But many think it should be - hopefully you too when you realize ...

[bholmes]

Ironically, every “internet” class I’ve taken for business stresses the importance of using an auto reply, to those would be clients who inquire about our product or service. I can’t pre-approve someone who I am sending an auto response to…as that might be their initial email to me.

As for the “catchall” account, as I said, I never set that account up that way. It came with that default, which is why I had to stop using it.

Yet, from what you say, and what I’ve learned today, I can’t use an auto response on my regular account either. Which is going to be a real bummer when we are on vacation, and my clients think I am ignoring them. Since I get over300 spam mail a day, my regular account gets almost as much junk as the other “catchall” one.

So tell me, why does every email account allow you to set up an automatic reply if it can cause so much trouble? Why do reputable business classes tell you to use auto reply?

You say “since you are re-distributing the "product" of every spammer that hits that address.” How am I doing that??? I am not sending them the email the spammer sent me. I am sending them a separate email with a basic “out fishing” message.

My point, there is more going on than you believing me to be clueless. I am using an email tool that not only is promoted by e-courses, it is commonly used by everyone…..whenever you email any business it is common to receive an email back saying your order or comment is being processed.

I agree there is a big spam problem, yet I do resent your comment that I am more of a problem than the spammers. That is bull. For one thing, once I am notified via my server that my incorrect use was causing problems, I can immediately stop being a problem. Yet, what about those dozens and dozens of Viagra and BS that flood my email each day?

If Spamcop and companies like those really cared about the problem, they would make more of an attempt to inform others that simple tools like auto reply can cause a problem, and then focus on the real spammers.

[Wazoo]

User states that FAQ were looked at, allegedly wandered through a whole bunch of rules (wondering where they might be ..???) ... allegedly looked at other discussions ... ignored all the hints, suggestions, tips, remarks, pointers, and such that talk about how to ask a "good" question, some of those items specifically stating that if the question is about a "blocking" action, the conversation goes no where wothout the IP address involved ....

No mention of stopping by and looking at the multiple copies of the "Why am I Blocked?" FAQ entry ...

Yet once again, much rant material provided, much talk about e-mail addresses and Domains .. on and on .. three posts, yet no mention of anything to work with .... no example rejection messages, no mention of what outgoing server is in use, on and on and on ... even the Domain that gets talked about so much doesn't come up as a data point ....

Moving this to the Lounge as simple rant material .....

[Farelf]

Aaagh ... where to start? Well ...

You say “since you are re-distributing the "product" of every spammer that hits that address.” How am I doing that??? I am not sending them the email the spammer sent me. I am sending them a separate email with a basic “out fishing” message. ...yet I do resent your comment that I am more of a problem than the spammers.

I do apologize - I qualified the matter of the messages

Think of all those innocent folk (whose addresses have been forged) getting second hand spam (if you repeat the original) or, in any event, unwanted "replies".

So read unwanted "replies", if you would, and yes, you did say you could stop it.

As to why (internet) business courses/reputable business classes promote autoreplies etc. They were a proper concept, now spoiled by the sheer volume of "static" put out on the internet. Maybe the instructors are a little behind the times, maybe they don't qualify their advice or emphasise enough by reference to what could happen in the the current jungle. Your own experience verifies the risk. SpamCop has been around for quite a while, it is not the only one, it is possibly the most "hair triggered", but also the easiest to get off of and, as a courtesy, always alerts the service provider admins (if they want to be notified) so that they can fix the problem early. As said, there are others and they are (said to be) tougher to shake.

In many circumstances autoresponders can be safely configured but not, as far as I know, when "good mail" is likely from some from previously unknown contacts. Unless you effectively filter your good mail first. Which is what you need to do to cut down on the volume of spam you are trying to deal with. That's what the SCBL is all about and many mail providers will use it, in conjunction with many more lists, to do just that, often without their subscriber's direct knowledge (which is a worry). A good many of the members "here" add their own account-level filtering. But at the end of the day, the only effective control is at the sending end which is why SpamCop encourages the participation of the sending side (admins at the source) for them to be involved.

Why does every email account allow you to set up an automatic reply ...? Well, many accounts will rate limit you in some way, if you're looking spammy by the volume going out. It is the email software which always supports autoresponds and that used to be a good idea in all circumstances and still can be in a controlled environment. In the same category is the domain catchall. It used to be a terrific idea. It certainly is no longer - if you want to pick up all responses you need a lot more processing before you use any of them. Why was it configured as the default? You would have to ask the maker/supplier but I'm thinking "why would they care?". Client service is often a sick joke these days. I gather you might be an exception (in your own business) - good for you, there should be more of you.

This has been moved to the lounge but hopefully some of the regulars here will add some useful advice if that's what you're seeking, if you want to get specific. Don't imagine it is just/only SpamCop ready to list your IP address if unwanted mail from that source hits the spamtraps or spam reporters.

[Miss Betsy]

If Spamcop and companies like those really cared about the problem, they would make more of an attempt to inform others that simple tools like auto reply can cause a problem, and then focus on the real spammers.

Spamcop does care and does send reports by reporters to the abuse desk of the IP where unsolicited and unwanted email is coming from except when the spam only hits spam traps. spam traps by definition do not send email.

Spammers have spoiled a number of things about email. Auto replies are a good idea for businesses. Some businesses can still use them by having rigourous spam filters and by whitelisting regular customers or possibly take care of possible new contacts by forwarding to another email address. Like the catchall (another good idea spoiled by spammers), some businesses have decided that it is better to shut auto responses off entirely rather than irritate hundreds of potential customers with bogus auto replies.

Also, people who may have missed this recent development are alerted by ISPs who use the spamcop blocklist to reject spam by having an undeliverable message returned to them. Other spam filtering systems (than blocklists) do not give you any indication that your email has not been delivered to the person's inbox. I have had emails go to bulk email folders for no discernable reason. How many were simply dropped I have no idea.

And spamcop, itself, does not use the spamcop blocklist to reject, but to tag email. Many other ISPs use it as part of a 'scoring' system to determine what is spam. A sender who has a problem is lucky if s/he finds out that their IP address is on the spamcop blocklist because s/he can fix the problem before the IP address gets on blocklists where it is not so easy to get off.

However, I agree with you that ISPs are not very good at educating their customers about how email works and good practices for using email. That's not spamcop's fault. In fact, spam and the problems it causes can only be controlled by the *sending* end. That's you and your ISP. They are the ones you should be ranting at.

Miss Betsy

[YuanTi]

However, I agree with you that ISPs are not very good at educating their customers about how email works and good practices for using email. That's not spamcop's fault. In fact, spam and the problems it causes can only be controlled by the *sending* end. That's you and your ISP. They are the ones you should be ranting at.

Miss Betsy

If I hear about how the problems are not SC's fault one more time.... I am gonna puke! Don't be guilty of "Shallow Thinking"... if SpamCop didn't add an ISP or Host to their blocking list the problems would not happen.

Bottom line!!!!... SpamCop "IS"the "ROOT" of the problem... blocking an entire ISP or Host because someone sent spam is ridiculous!

I have been on the wrong end of this problem. Last month my Host ended up on SC's list due to some spam going out from their email server. SC then proceeded to block the entire email system from my Host = which then caused a tremendous amount of work for me to reroute over 200 emails to my clients.

Did I send any spam...NO, someone else did...So Why am I being penalized for the actions of a Stranger? All ISPs and Hosting companies are susceptible to having their systems compromised by Hard Core Spammers and all the ones I have dealt with work very hard to keep this from happening.

To blame the ISP or Host for the problem is really a streatch of logic... why don't we just blame/penalize the Police for all the crimes.... the Firefighters for all the fires... and last but not least, lets blame the Parents for all the bad things their children do!

Contact SC... you gotta be joking!... They do not list an email address on their site... They do not list a phone number on their site. What are they hiding???

My experience shows that SpamCop is creating many times the amount of work for legitimate web sites as any cost that is incurred by receiving and deleting spam..... AND... after 3 months of tracking the spam that I receive, there seems to be "no reduction" in the number I receive.

In Conclusion: SpamCop is causing more work than they are saving... they are penalizing the wrong people in 90% of the cases and they seem to only be doing all this simply for the Money.

Now, all you brainwashed Members are free to tell me why I am wrong and to nitpick any spelling errors in this post as I see so many times in other posts here.

[Wazoo]

In Conclusion: SpamCop is causing more work than they are saving... they are penalizing the wrong people in 90% of the cases and they seem to only be doing all this simply for the Money.

I don't receive a dime .... but admiring the ignorance shown by some is just priceless .....

Now, all you brainwashed Members are free to tell me why I am wrong and to nitpick any spelling errors in this post as I see so many times in other posts here.

Why waste the time? Much time and effort has already been expended to provide FAQ (Frequently Asked Question) answers .... you have failed to do any research there .... why would anyone think you'd actually read any explanations posted to idiotic drivel like this?

I added in a SpellCheck application to this application ... however, will admit that I don't use it often enough myself ... but just another example of your not looking around, or actually asking for help ...

[StevenUnderwood]

Please read at least this account of "Why am I blocked?"

[DavidT]

Why waste the time?

Precisely. I'd suggest putting all posts he makes in a single Lounge topic entited "the collected rantings of YuanTi."

DT

[bholmes]

Wow, I know I am new here, but so far, the one who makes the most sense is Yuan Ti.

To Wazoo who moved my message to the lounge, and chided me for not doing enough homework before posting property…..please take a moment to see this from my perspective. For me, SpamCop insinuated itself into my life, and this forum (which is obviously hosted by them) was the only means I could find to reach to them. Once I arrived at your doorstep, I was already frustrated, tired, and definitely in a need to rant. To be handed a 50 page instruction manual and being told I need to read it before proceeding just pissed me off. Yes I understand that all the posters here are not from SpamCop, yet isn’t SP the host of this forum?

To be honest Wazoo, you seem to be a tad smug, and desensitized to what happens to many non-spammers because of the actions of this self appointed vigilante group. And while we might have the same “story” (to you who are a reg to this forum) to each of us new comers, it is fresh, and new, uniquely frustrating experience.

Ok, I will break my rant and ask you to consider the following. 10 years ago email and the WWW was primarily the domain of the computer junkie or nerd. In less than a decade email and the internet has become a standard business tool. Most professionals who use this tool attempt to be as educated as possible, yet normally (due to time constraints) learn as much as possible through industry sponsored classes and seminars.

I myself am a realtor, and have my e-pro designation, and have taken a variety of classes on using the internet. I know to only contact clients who first contact me, and when sending out any large email newsletters, I go through a company from my industry, who is the “expert” in doing this properly. I, like most other professionals, make every attempt to use the tool responsibly.

But, organizations like SpamCop seem to work on the premise that the only folks out there using email are the computer gurus and geeks, who know all the little tricks, and so the pouncing they do is justified. Yet, they need to wake up to the fact that most of the folks out there using email are just average folks, and a lot LESS computer savvy than I am.

My point being, if they are really serious about correcting the problem of spam, they need to approach the problem differently, for as Yuan Ti said, they are creating more of a problem.

I tried to come up with an analogy….

Imagine I am running a business in the day before the internet. I send out snail mail to my clients on a regular basis. In order to save me money, I register with the post office to send out bulk mail, which I use for my postage.

A group call SP comes along, and is frustrated with all the junk mail they keep getting. So after some investigation they learn that most junk mail is being sent with this special stamp, so they inform all of the mail carriers that any mail that has that stamp will be junk mail. So, instead of putting the mail in your mail box, the mail carrier tosses it in the trash.

The post office does not tell you that buying this special stamp (much like an auto response option) might get the mail carrier to toss your mail in the trash. You already know the recipient can toss your mail…yet since they are expecting it, you know they won’t because they will see it is from you.

Now, while it is my job to know certain things before using the post office….such as I have to buy stamps, and there are certain things I legally cant send through the mail…how can I know what the post office may be telling its employees? How much am I suppose to learn about the post office’s inter working before I use the service and expect my mail to be delivered?

Shouldn’t the post office at least warn me before selling me the stamp that they have instructed the carriers to toss mail with that stamp????

So NOW answer me this question…

How do I contact SpamCop, and get my domain off their black list??? Is anyone from SpamCop out there, or do they ignore this forum and just make money off the victims, much like the spammers????

[Farelf]

...So NOW answer me this question…

How do I contact SpamCop, and get my domain off their black list??? Is anyone from SpamCop out there, or do they ignore this forum and just make money off the victims, much like the spammers????

Your domain is not on any SC black list. Your ISP staff, if they have any interest, know all about the problem. It is the ISP admin the "real" SC folk deal with. If you want to contact them too, go ahead, the contact details are easy to find. But you would be better off talking to your ISP staff. We ordinary users can't help you learn what you don't want to know.

[bholmes]

Your domain is not on any SC black list. Your ISP staff, if they have any interest, know all about the problem. It is the ISP admin the "real" SC folk deal with. Talk to your ISP. "We" ordinary users can't help you learn what you don't want to know.

Really? I mean about not being on a SC Blacklist. Actually, I received an email from my ISP that said *I* causesd all of their clients to be blacklisted, and that they removed the auto reply. They then forwarded me an email they received from SP. I immediately emailed both them and SP...yet received no answer. I am assuming I am blacklisted, as they told me.

And since I have been unsuccessful in contacting either party, that is why I came here...the only way I could find to contact SP, if even indirectly.

You tell me ""We" ordinary users can't help you learn what you don't want to know." is a bit snotty. After all, when you all hang out in a club sponsored by SP, you need to understand that frustrated people like me will barge in wanting help (after ranting a bit).

You also say the ISP admin is the "real" folks that SC deal with, yet if it my domain that is blacklisted (or is it?) and if my ISP continues to be nonresponsive in helping me resolve this issue, then if I move my domain to another ISP, won't the problem follow me? Don't *I* need to actively clear my domain??

[Farelf]

Really? I mean about not being on a SC Blacklist.

Your domain has nothing to do with it. All the information you need to post an intelligible query is at your disposal if, in fact, you needed to at the end of that process. Goodbye.

[GraemeL]

Really? I mean about not being on a SC Blacklist. Actually, I received an email from my ISP that said *I* causesd all of their clients to be blacklisted, and that they removed the auto reply. They then forwarded me an email they received from SP. I immediately emailed both them and SP...yet received no answer. I am assuming I am blacklisted, as they told me.

Really. The Spamcop blacklist only lists the IP address of the machine that is the source of the spam. Your domain name is not blacklisted.

If your ISP says that your configuration was the sole cause of the listing and that they have disabled the auto-replies that were the problem, then the server will fall off of the blacklist in under 24 hours.

[bholmes]

Really. The Spamcop blacklist only lists the IP address of the machine that is the source of the spam. Your domain name is not blacklisted.

If your ISP says that your configuration was the sole cause of the listing and that they have disabled the auto-replies that were the problem, then the server will fall off of the blacklist in under 24 hours.

Thank you Graemaet. I appreciate your response. I really did think my domain was blocked, because of what my ISP sent me in an original email.) I am at home, and don’t have a copy of that email, or I would be more specific. And since neither my ISP or SP had responded to my questions, I was panicked.

Thanks.

And to Wazoo

Because you are listed as the administrator here, I read a few of your responses to other posters. Is it really productive to flame other posters? Belittling someone’s opinion is not the same thing as disagreeing. Nor is it necessary to make snide remarks about a person’s intelligence (or lack of).

At one point you suggested someone check FAQ for how to contact SP, instead of ranting here first. Have YOU ever actually read the answers there?

First, when using the system it reminds me of that annoying phone answering system that is now in vogue. The one where you call the company and you keep getting “for this press 2” “now that you’ve pressed 2, press 5” and so on and so on. And when you are finally put through to your party (after 30 clicks, and 5 disconnects) you are cranky and end up ranting to the person on the other end of the phone line.

I DID read how to contact SP, and it told me nothing. I DID try responding to the email sent to my ISP (which they forwarded to me)…I did that before I came to the forum. And when I came to the forum, the FAQ tells me to do what I already did, and that was no help!

You and FarElf are definitely edgy….and considering FarElf is listed as moderator and you as administrator, it is a poor reflection on this forum, IMO. It is one thing for a regular member to go off the beam from time to time…yet one expects a monitor and administer to “play nice” and to remind other posters to behave, and if necessary, take actions to make them behave.

Yet, if “misbehaving” is expressing an opposing point of view, then I believe you both might want to step back a moment and reevaluate your objectivity.

Forums need more civility. And one should at least expect it from the Administrators and Monitors.

[DavidT]

Mr. Holmes,

These forums contain a rather LARGE amount of information, and it can be overwhelming. The admin, the moderators, and the regular users are all volunteers and have their own personalities and individual ways of communicating. Sometimes we appear less polite and gentle than at other times, but that's usually a function of the perceived attitude of the new person who shows up and jumps right into "ranting" mode. You'll find that once the ranter has calmed down and done the required homework, as well as provided the information requested (domain, IP addresses, error messages, etc.) that things will be more along the lines of what you're probably expecting. So far, we don't have the necessary details from you, and also, your posts reflected a lack of familiarity with the information found in the FAQ, and in pinned posts such as "Why am I blocked?" and the like.

I hope you get to the point where you're truly ready for help...it's available here, which is better than nothing.

DT

[bholmes]

Mr. Holmes...

I hope you get to the point where you're truly ready for help...it's available here, which is better than nothing.

DT

Gee, sorta sounds like I am a drug addict who hasn't fessed up to my addiction! But if you can see in my last message, Graemet gave me information that helped fill in some of the blanks. As for my next step, I will wait to hear a response from my mail provider.

I still believe that those in a position of administrator or monitor (be it volunteer or paid) need to practice a bit more civility than the rest of us crazy posters... They are not setting the best example by some of the remarks I’ve read. Especially those nasty personal attacks.

When on a forum such as this, I would think that a board’s Administrator would be used to newbies arriving in a hissy fit rant. Considering the host of this board, that would be a givens. I am not suggesting they need to be recipients of abuse, yet do they need to jump in the mud?

And for the record....when I first came in here I asked (after my rant) how to contact SP directly. The FAQ did not give me any new info. I did not ask "Why am I blocked"...I already knew that.....I thought it was silly...but I knew why.

BTW….I am a Ms, not a Mr.

Hmmm....I just quickly reread the posts....thought I asked how to contact SC directly....yet while I was "thinking it"...seems to be lost in my rants!

[DavidT]

Graemet gave me information that helped fill in some of the blanks.

The information that GraemeL (with an "L") provided was stuff that you'd have found in the SpamCop FAQ.

I still believe that those in a position of administrator or monitor (be it volunteer or paid) need to practice a bit more civility than the rest of us crazy posters... They are not setting the best example by some of the remarks I’ve read. Especially those nasty personal attacks.

Nasty? Personal? I just went back through every post in this topic and found nothing of the sort. So your basic premise is incorrect.

how to contact SP directly. The FAQ did not give me any new info.

It's there....in the link marked "SpamCop FAQ" up in the blue headers on all these pages....see below.

I did not ask "Why am I blocked"...I already knew that.....I thought it was silly...but I knew why.

No, not precisely. When someone comes here with blocking issues, they absolutely, positively *should* read the "Why am I blocked?" articles....I don't think you did.

BTW….I am a Ms, not a Mr.

Oops....sexist gaffe on my part. I apologize.

Hmmm....I just quickly reread the posts....thought I asked how to contact SC directly....yet while I was "thinking it"...seems to be lost in my rants!

So, when I clicked on "SpamCop FAQ" at the top of the page, and did a quick page search for "contact" (using Ctrl-f in most browsers), I was quickly taken to the link titled "How can I contact a SpamCop representative?" which goes here:

http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/401.html

On that page, you'll see multiple contact suggestions, including one for "Blocking list dispute resolution" and "ISP relations contact" (which would be for your ISP), but actually, "end users" such as yourself who have had email blocked aren't offered a direct contact option wit SC personnel....you're supposed to get your ISP to contact SpamCop, admin to admin....that's the way it works. The way you'd find that out is by clicking on "Blocking list dispute resolution" where you would see this:

This FAQ is for network and server administrators. If you are an end-user whose email is being rejected and you're getting delivery failure notices that cite SpamCop as the reason, please go here for information about what to do.

which has a link here:

http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/405.html

While that information is useful, there's plenty more here in the forums, so you're in the right place. However, we can help you MUCH better if you provide the details from one of the error messages indicating which IP address was involved in the blocking, and your domain name.

DT

[Wazoo]

Gee, sorta sounds like I am a drug addict who hasn't fessed up to my addiction! But if you can see in my last message, Graemet gave me information that helped fill in some of the blanks. As for my next step, I will wait to hear a response from my mail provider.

That and much more would have been provided as an intial response, had you provided any data to work with .. which you have still failed to do ....

I still believe that those in a position of administrator or monitor (be it volunteer or paid) need to practice a bit more civility than the rest of us crazy posters... They are not setting the best example by some of the remarks I’ve read. Especially those nasty personal attacks.

You say "personal attacks" .. I'm assuming your talking about the last few posts replying to the last ranter here, spewing misinformation based on having no facts or clues .. of all the "personal" thoughts I had about that individual, none were exposed to the public. That the image of a mad dog, foaming at the mouth, chained to the tree of ignorance crossed my mind probably was made clear when talking specificly about the lunacy involved in the spewing forth all that bad data, but I didn't actually "say" that ... just seeing the signature data of "lifetime member - Marines" had me thinking back to all the Marines I've served with ... lots of good memories ... but then had to get back to "responding" to what was on my screen ....

When on a forum such as this, I would think that a board’s Administrator would be used to newbies arriving in a hissy fit rant. Considering the host of this board, that would be a givens. I am not suggesting they need to be recipients of abuse, yet do they need to jump in the mud?

My premise on this last bit of ranting .. prevent so many others (as in this 'discussion') from wasting their time trying to help folks that obviously don't want any help.

And for the record....when I first came in here I asked (after my rant) how to contact SP directly. The FAQ did not give me any new info. I did not ask "Why am I blocked"...I already knew that.....I thought it was silly...but I knew why.

Yet, by that statement alone makes it clear that all the work that went into building that specific document to answer questions involved with that situation were totally ignored. And instead of reading that FAQ (Frequently Asked Question) list entry, you chose to simply "ask" the same question again ... yet also ignoring all the other pleas, hints, tips, suggesyions to provide some actual data for folks to work with in trying to answer this Frequently Asked Question for the zillionth time .... and again, you have still not provided anything but rant material to work with.

There's the 'official' FAQ

There's the single-page-access-expanded version 'here'

There's the SC Wiki for yet another view to that data

There's the additional tools for Technical terms, provided in two forms (three if you include the Wiki)

There have been several other versions/forms of the FAQ attempted here ....

You even have the opportunity/invitation to fix, improve, add, etc. any and all of this data ... yet, again, all I have seen thus far is your desire to continue in the rant mode ....

If you actually want help, provide the data requested (numerous times now)

[Miss Betsy]

Miss Betsy

If I hear about how the problems are not SC's fault one more time.... I am gonna puke! Don't be guilty of "Shallow Thinking"... if SpamCop didn't add an ISP or Host to their blocking list the problems would not happen.

Bottom line!!!!... SpamCop "IS"the "ROOT" of the problem... blocking an entire ISP or Host because someone sent spam is ridiculous!

And if spamcop didn't add an IP address to their blocking list, then all the spamcop users would be inudated with spam.

By the way, spamcop does not block an entire ISP or Host, it only blocks IP addresses. There is a difference.

It seems to me I said the same thing recently to someone else. You aren't the same one who blames everyone else when there is a problem, are you?

Miss Betsy

[Wazoo]

bholmes has been here since the last post, but see no sign that she's going to offer any updates or data to help bring this to any kind of a close .... one could asume that the IP address in question has aged off the SpamCopDSNBL, so there's no longer a major issue ....????

No way to tag this as Resolved, and there'd be a question as to whether simpy closing this Topic would be the right thing to do, in case she decides to revisit (hopefully not because the IP address got lsted again) ....

A bit aggravatng that so many people spent so much time to try to get involved, explain things, offer assistance, yet .... basically ignored by the Topic starter, providing a platform for an idiotic ranter, and now the Topic gets left in a totally unknown state ....

[bholmes]

>>>see no sign that she's going to offer any updates or data to help bring this to any kind of a close<<<

I’ve been away the last few days…but the issue apparently has been resolved (according to my mail host).

>>You aren't the same one who blames everyone else when there is a problem, are you?<<

Hmmm….I certainly don’t think so. I’ve never believed finding someone to place the blame on was very productive. I’d rather find a solution to the problem.

>>>The information that GraemeL (with an "L") provided was stuff that you'd have found in the SpamCop FAQ.<<<

My apologies to Graemel for misspelling his name.

>>Nasty? Personal? I just went back through every post in this topic and found nothing of the sort. So your basic premise is incorrect. <<

Actually it was a few remarks Wazoo gave another poster, was something about that poster being unable to read. And considering MY problem with spelling…you can see how I might be overly sensitive about such a remark!

>>they absolutely, positively *should* read the "Why am I blocked?"<<

I will admit, I still don’t get this point of view. My mail server had already told me why I was blocked (cause I was an idiot who turned on her auto response).

>> you're supposed to get your ISP to contact SpamCop<<

Errr yes….I believe I commented on that….When I came barging into this place, the FAQ basically told me *I* could not contact SpamCop directly, it had to be through my provider. Yet, since that was not the answer I wanted to hear (at the time my provider was not being very responsive), I thought perhaps one of you might be able to tell me how to contact the elusive folk behind SpamCop…and I also thought one of those fellas might be lurking somewhere on the board.

While I understand everyone’s outrage over spam (I too hate the stuff), and your longing to tar and feather me for stupidly turning on my auto reply option….But for me SpamCop is not an “official” agency, as such, but a capitalistic, business for profit endeavor, who I believed had insinuated itself into my life, and I thought the least they could do was provide a legitimate contact number.

>>Yet, by that statement alone makes it clear that all the work that went into building that specific document to answer questions involved with that situation were totally ignored.<<

Ahhhh Wazoo, my dear lad (or ladet), I don’t think you guys will ever get my point. I will take the blame, I guess I simply have not made it clear enough.

But maybe this will help:

1. When I first was contacted by my provider, I was led to believe my domain and email was put on some blacklist, because I had used my auto reply option (which is available on all my email accounts)

2. I was told this was done because of actions by SpamCop.

3. I was given a copy of the email from SpamCop, which I immediately replied to.

4. I emailed both SpamCop and my provider, asking for clarification on the situation.

5. I got really frustrated, and went to the SpamCop website, and could find not real contact information.

6. I busted into your party…I felt that since the forum was hosted on a website that was clearly a SpaCop site, that some of their people had to be lurking around.

7. I DID read a bit of the FAQ, specifically looking for contact info.

8. As I looked, and grew more frustrated, and panicked I began to resent…and I mean RESENT some company like SpamCop, who are not real cops, yet are behaving as such (and while they technically do not 86 your email, they are the party leading the charge).

9. What I am actually resenting is the fact that they are telling me there are specific “hoops” I need to jump through first. That just really bugged me.

10. I just wanted a simply, quick answer (like the one Graemel gave me, for which I was grateful, and immediately told him so.)

The point I am trying to make…is that just because SpamCop has all these “rules”….well, rules are like laws, and I don’t recall a vote giving them any authority over me. (And telling me I HAVE to read the FAQ, etc, is like telling me I must follow their rules.)

Now, had SpamCop never insinuated themselves into my life, by sending my provider that email, and had I barged onto YOUR forum, and ignored the “protocol”, then I would understand why you would all be pissed at me.

IMO, this is a slippery slope folks. When a private company puts themselves in a position where they are regulating an industry….and have the power to destroy people’s livelihoods, if that power is misused, that scares the hell out of me. Especially when that entity makes itself “godlike”, and in assessable.

Since my email seems to be a-ok now (so says my provider), I will stop harassing you folks.

Pensive in Arizona.

[dbiel]

What you still fail to understand is that your email account was NEVER blocked.

Email that you sent to specific individuals were blocked becasue they or their ISP chose to due so.

As far as rules go.

You may set your own rules for sending mail, but the recipeint also has the right to set their own rules on what they will receive.

If you want to send mail to any specific individual or company, you MUST follow their rules if you want them to receive and process your mail.

It is no different with snail mail. Fewer people take the time to stamp it return to sender, they simply trash it.

It should be noted that the same is true for email, There is no requirement to return a notice that the mail was not accepted and many people simple delete it in which case you would never know that it was not delivered unless you took the time to follow up.