silentlarry Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 This is more of an FYI than anything else. Have noticed in the past couple weeks or so that (subscribed) mail from yahoo groups is not getting white listed. I have "returns.groups.yahoo.com" in the spamcop mail whitelist, the problem is yahoo groups now seems to be using the original sender's email address as the "Reply-To: ", rather than the previous "returns..." address. Indeed, "returns.groups.yahoo.com" no longer appears in any header. I have also white listed the individual group addresses (i.e. "groupsname[at]yahoo.com"), but this has no effect as this does not appear in "Reply-To:" So it's probably pointless. If nothing else, might be time for an update to the FAQ http://mailsc.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/306.html "How do I whitelist yahoo groups?" 'cause it don't seem to work no more, dang it. Not to gripe, but I do wish spamcop mail whitelist function examined a few more headers than just "Reply-To:" There's probably some reason for that which I don't grok. thanks Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Note dropped to Deputies and Courtney (still don't know if she's involved these days or not) about the FAQ entry .... Note to JT about the filtering situation ... but, not being a YahooGroups user, is there any other "common" line to try to look at for filtering purposes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentlarry Posted November 24, 2004 Author Share Posted November 24, 2004 Note to JT about the filtering situation ... but, not being a YahooGroups user, is there any other "common" line to try to look at for filtering purposes? 20519[/snapback] Yep; here's a sample (munged with "groupsname"): Mailing-List: list groupsname[at]yahoogroups.com; contact groupsname-owner[at]yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list groupsname[at]yahoogroups.com List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:groupsname-unsubscribe[at]yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: groupsname[at]yahoogroups.com If the actual headers would be helpful, I'll be happy to email them as appropriate. Just a little wary of posting them. If I had my druthers, I'd like to have the whitelist check (or have the option of checking) one or more headers like Reply-To: From: Mailing-List: ...in addtion to "Return-Path: ". This would have saved me some similar mailing list issues I've had in the past. But like I say, they may have had good reason for not examining more headers, aye dunno. Thanks, Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Great feedback. Thanks. This should be more than enough "stuff" for JT to reply directly to specifically ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff G. Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 What is the "Return-Path" showing now? Have you tried whitelisting the right hand side of that (or the whole thing if it's consistent)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentlarry Posted November 25, 2004 Author Share Posted November 25, 2004 What is the "Return-Path" showing now? The address of the individual who originated the mail to the group. (see initial post) Have you tried whitelisting the right hand side of that (or the whole thing if it's consistent)? 20541[/snapback] Not practical to whitelist the all the members of the typical yahoo group, for several reasons I'm sure are obvious. Anyhoo, it's no emergency. For now I'm routing the group traffic through a sneakemail.com box, and whitelisting on that. Thanks all, Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff G. Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 If there is something consistent about those Yahoo! Groups messages (that hopefully is not consistent with spam), then you should be able to filter the messages in your Held Mail mailbox (Folder) so that the Yahoo! Groups messages can be delivered to your INBOX mailbox. However, be warned that such filtering of your entire Held Mail mailbox takes CPU time each and every time your Held Mail mailbox is displayed, no matter how many messages in it are displayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentlarry Posted November 25, 2004 Author Share Posted November 25, 2004 ... then you should be able to filter the messages in your Held Mail mailbox (Folder)Â so that the Yahoo! Groups messages can be delivered to your INBOX mailbox. If I used SC webmail exclusively that would work out. Normally I'm poping to eudora at home. Logging into webmail to filter it involves more steps than I'd like, and pretty much precludes automatic popping by the client. Going to stick with routing yahoo group mail thru sneakemail for now, as it keeps the process automatic. Thanks, Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelanglo Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 Going to stick with routing yahoo group mail thru sneakemail for now, as it keeps the process automatic. 20560[/snapback] I have just sent a test to the only active Yahoo group I am subscribed to and X-SpamCop-Whitelisted: returns.groups.yahoo.com (15 minutes ago) So it is not a universal problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 Ouch! and after sending out the e-mail to the powers that be ... hmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentlarry Posted November 26, 2004 Author Share Posted November 26, 2004 Ouch indeed. Dunno what's up with that, I can relay the headers if wanted. But if no one else is being bothered, its probably not worth pursuing, mysterious though it may be. I did poke around the yahoo group mail settings, looking for anything relevant, but of course there's nothing anywhere near that technical. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 I'm with your original position .. if Yahoo is changing things, then the FAQ needs to be addressed. But, as I said way back, I don't do that stuff, so was only going with data available at the time. The best face I can put on it now is that there seems to be something about specific groups that's at issue ..??? You're suggesting that the 'difference' may not be at the subscriber level, is this something that a YahooGroup manager might have in the set-up for the group? I have noticed that no one seems to want to actually identify the group/list involved, so not sure how to persue getting hold of a group manager, for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentlarry Posted November 26, 2004 Author Share Posted November 26, 2004 Don't know for certain it's a yahoo thing, what with the info from michaelanglo. My yahoo group mail was directed to a mailbox on an SBC account, and spampcop POPed it out of that. Now I'm wondering if SBC was messing with the headers (funny the things that pop into your head at 4am). I can't imagine why they would do that, but I've found much complain about with them before so it wouldn't surprise me. I'm going to mess around and see if that might have been the deal. May take a while, as changes to yahoo group mail forwarding settings seem to take 24 hours (to change the target address, turn it on or off) to take effect. I'll certainly give you a big fat apology if it was SBCs fault. Then I can hate them even more. One yahoo group in question was "ocburners" (no, nuthin' kinky). I can check with them about any setup changes. I can send the headers to you via the bbs "personal message" later, don't have them on hand now. Just wary of posting a bunch of raw stuff, I'd wouldn't know if I was handing out something exploitable or what. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentlarry Posted November 29, 2004 Author Share Posted November 29, 2004 Mmmmm... ok. When I get the yahoo group mail sent to either sneakemail or spamcop, the Return-Path: does end in "[at]returns.groups.yahoo.com" (sneakemail changes return-path to a unique sneakemail address, but you can see the original unmangled version in the "X-Sneakemail-Return-Path:" header). So of course whitelisting works on that. BUT for whatever reason, yahoo group mail to the SBC (actually [at]pacbell.net) mailbox ends up with Return-Path: tweaked to show the original sender as previously described. I don't know if SBC is messing with it, or if yahoo does it differently for the stuff directed to sbc addresses. I suspect the former, but I don't know how I'd figure out for certain which one of them is doing it. The sneakmail thing works out better for me, so it's a moot point. Sorry Wazoo if this matter was bothersome, it took me by surprise that this annoyance was so specific. Anyway, thanks for the help. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff G. Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Please watch out for that 10MB "Monthly bandwidth" limitation on the "Sneakemail.com 2.0 Free service". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazoo Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 No bother. It was just that touch on the credibility thing, jumping too quick into the fire and screaming out the alerts is all <g> I try to present all the data available when I do send stuff upstream, and you had me convinced that there was something major going on .. and the FAQ is one of those specific things .. that's where the sticking it out until a solid answer was the direction I wanted to go. Thanks again for doing that research. Discussions with RW this morning about another FAQ entry changed some perceptions and concepts that I've been running under ... it may be that I'm going to have to trash the one here and get out of the mode of trying to update this copy/version to flush it out. Getting off-topic .. but again, no problem from here, but many thanks for your efforts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidT Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 BUT for whatever reason, yahoo group mail to the SBC (actually [at]pacbell.net) mailbox ends up with Return-Path: tweaked to show the original sender as previously described. Looks like SBC is the culprit, because it's highly unlikely that Yahoo is producing different Return-Path values for different receiving systems. I generally choose to read all my Yahoo!Groups on the Web, but to test this problem out, I switched one of the active groups to email subscription, and the "returns.groups.yahoo.com" is still there. I think you can safely contact SBC and yell at them about mangling/altering email headers. DT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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